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[LML] D2 Update

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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject: [LML] D2 Update

Here is a valued post from someone I respect.  For a few RV-10 builders, this may cause some trepidation.  As many of you know, I have been a strong supporter of Chelton products.  This is going to be a better year in 2007.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.  

   

Don’t shoot the messenger.  

     

John Cox 

 the Turbanator #40600   

Do not archive as this information will be worthless shortly and has no archival value!  

        

  

From: Lancair Mailing List [mailto:lml(at)lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Brent Regan

 Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 2:12 PM

 To: lml(at)lancaironline.net

 Subject: [LML] D2 Update  

  

   

I have reviewed the situation with Kirk (D2) and Gordon (CFS). Here is what I have learned. 

 

 It is true that D2 has closed its doors. CFS has picked up new orders with Lancair, Epic and D2's other dealers.

 

 CFS has an agreement with Pinpoint Inertial to distribute their ADAHRS  /  GADAHRS.

 

 CFS is NOT responsible for commitments made by any of their dealers. CFS's official information release is copied below.

 

 CFS is committed to supporting their products.

 

 So what happened? In my opinion the tipping point came with the X-bow 42X problem. D2 could have told their customers that the 425 problems were a X-bow warranty issue but instead they took the high road and offered to replace the 425s with Pinpoints. One could imagine that this put a tremendous strain on cash flow. Kirk thought it was a risk worth taking but did not foresee two additional events. One was X-bow getting into the EFIS market (Advanced).  This begs the question: If X-bow can make an ADAHRS for their own EFIS, why didn't they fix the 42Xs???

 

 Second was Garmin's entry into the experimental market. This one is a real mystery. As Hamid pointed out to me, why would Garmin's least profitable division (avionics) enter the least profitable sector of that market (experimental)? I am unaware of any other certified aviation company that has made this retrograde market expansion.  It is like being married to Cindy Crawford and then having an affair with Janet Reno. If I were a Garmin experimental customer I would be nervous that Garmin will wake up and gnaw their arm off to get out of the market as fast as possible.  Remember the Starship?

 

 In the end it was D2's commitment to it's customers that was their undoing. D2's failure is a loss for everyone but their competitors. Ironically, D2's failure is also bad news for X-bow as all the customers that are holding 425's will be looking to X-bow to make them well.

 

 The good news is that it seems all the products that were distributed by D2 will still be available to builders through other distributors.  

 

 I would also point out that the above is hearsay or the opinion of a confessed idiot and should not be taken seriously.

 

 The authorized information is copied below.

 

 Wishing you and yours the Merriest Christmas possible and a safe New Year with blue skies and cheap fuel.

 

 Regards

 Brent Regan  

CHELTON FLIGHT SYSTEMS  

AUTHORIZED INFORMATION RELEASE REGARDING  

Direct 2 Avionics  

  <> </>   

December 22, 2006  

   

    

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION THAT CHELTON HAS AUTHORIZED RELATING TO DIRECT 2 AVIONICS SITUATION BY ANY EMPLOYEE OF CHELTON.  THIS EXPLANATION IS THE ONLY EXPLANATION YOU ARE AUTHORIZED TO PROVIDE ABOUT DIRECT 2 AVIONICS, ITS OWNERS OR EMPLOYEES, AND BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH CHELTON.  ANY OTHER STATEMENT, SPECULATION, GOSSIP OR RUMOR REGARDING DIRECT 2 AVONICS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.   

    

      

<></>   

STATEMENT:  

   

To Whom It May Concern:  

   

            By now you have probably heard that DIRECT 2 AVIONICS (“D2A”) had to close its business.  Like you, we at Chelton Flight Systems were disappointed and concerned that D2A felt it had to take this action.  

   

D2A was an authorized, independently-owned distributor for Chelton.   Chelton has no ownership or other relationship with D2A.  Chelton has received various inquiries from persons who have alleged that they were told by D2A that parts for which they claimed to have paid D2A were “back ordered.”  Chelton currently has no purchase orders from D2A and there are no “back orders” to be filled.  Chelton has also suspended taking any further purchase orders from D2A and has suspended D2A’s status as an authorized distributor.  

   

Chelton regrets any inconvenience or financial loss the situation with D2A may have caused you.   

   

      [quote][b]

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CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: [LML] D2 Update

uh oh...  how will i get my GADAHARS?  i was never sent one.  am i out 30k?  is this for real?



cj

(bummed)

#40410



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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: [LML] D2 Update

I've caught some rumors of this for a couple days now.  I don't

know intimate details of anything, because Kirk never did

fill me in on the happenings, so everything I have heard is

not from him.



What I can tell you is this....  There are a lot of people

who have great interest in seeing this thing play out well for

all of the customers involved, and they're actively working to

try to find out what methods of resolution can be worked out.

The announcement was kind of forced because there are, of course,

many people with interest in the situation...but it would have been

nice if a solution was provided at the time of the news.  The best

advice is probably to keep in good touch with the dealers that

were bought through, as they will be spending a lot of time

trying to find out what will happen too.



I myself feel pretty bad about all of this, because it's a great

system, and my good fortune with it may have prompted lots of

people to go that route.  Who would have thought that there

would be the main distributor doing things improperly that would

have messed it up for everyone.  The product is good, the manufacturer

can deliver, and everything surrounding it is fine....except for

the fact that the distributor middle-man was taking payments

and not delivering...and not ordering from Mother Chelton.  So that

one company is solely at the heart of this problem.  Currently,

as I hear it, Chelton itself actually will accept orders from

dealers, and not take payment until time of delivery, and that

delivery time is 3-4 weeks....just like any good business would

be.  Too bad the distributor chose to do something different.

With companies that have had issues like Stoddard-Hamilton,

Kitfox, Bede, and more, it stinks to see this kind of thing

coming up again.  There is one thing to be very aware of in your

dealings with basically almost any of these companies....in

most cases, except for Garmin, almost every EFIS and Autopilot

type company you can name is being run by a very limited

staff, with some very key people.  It doesn't take much more

than a car accident involving one of the members to drastically

change the marketplace.  At least with Garmin and Chelton,

you have manufacturers with tremendous resources behind them...

but in this particular case, it probably would have been nice

to not have that middleman distributor.



So it is pretty sad to see this kind of thing creep up during

Christmas week, of all weeks.  I'd urge people to just get in

touch with their dealer who sold them their unit if they have

undelivered goods, and make your thoughts known to them.

If there is going to be a favorable solution, they'll be

exceedingly thrilled to tell you about it.  If there's going

to be legal action, they may even be happy to keep you informed.

At present, it would be premature to think anyone has actually

lost anything, because there is nothing that has been

finalized since Chelton has become aware of the situation.

In the end, if a favorable solution is made, it may actually

prove to be a positive happening in that the endless delays

that people have been having could finally be over, since it's

becoming apparent that those were financially related.



If I hear anything good, I'll try to pass it on to the list.

For those who have interest though, contact your dealers.

And for anyone still interested in the EFIS itself, it's

still worth calling the dealers.  It sounds as if systems

are available and can be ordered without payment, so

new sales at least should be not only unaffected, but

much more fortunate than anyone who's currently paid and

waiting for goods.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Chris Johnston wrote:

[quote] uh oh...  how will i get my GADAHARS?  i was never sent one.  am i out 30k?  is this for real?

 

 cj

 (bummed)

 #40410

 

 

 

 --

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capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: [LML] D2 Update

I'm very curious as to why chelton set up distribution through d2 to begin

with. Was it to isolate liability? Did they want to focus on manufacturing?

I do like the product and am (was) very seriously considering it in my

current project. But, what benefit would there be, except additional cost

and to add another layer of distribution....how was d2 licensed to handle

manufacturing defects? How much authority were they given to handle warranty

claims?? Garmin deals directly with avionics shops and major retailers

.don't they?? That seems to be the most common business model.. I never

questioned they're (cheltons) business practices until now, but in light of

the current situation, I think I'd only feel comfortable dealing directly

with the manufacturer. Or at least a reputable avionics dealer who has

direct contact with the manufacturer. 

	I don't presume to know 'nuthin bout nuthin' .. but I do wish the

continued success of chelton and I know they'll work out any speedbumps.

Until then I'll wait and see...

steve



[quote] --

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Mike@Crossbow

Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 8

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: Re: [LML] D2 Update

There are a lot of posts on this topic already, however I'd like to refer any customers to some of the other posts to make sure that everyone has the right information.  



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=20828&highlight=d2a



In regards to Brent's original email, I think there is a lot of misinformation here but we do not intend to get into a shouting match over this since this does not benefit the customers.  I will however make some key points.



1) "If Xbow can fix their own EFIS why can't they fix the NAV42X".  The NAV425EX originally had some bugs in the system, however we resolved those issues last April and have been updating units since.  This unit has been continuosly sold to other EFIS manufacturers since then and has proven to be a high performanc and reliable AHRS.  We offered these fixes to D2A, however they chose to take another path.  Please also note that Crossbow does not currently sell an EFIS.



2) Crossbow has extended our upgrade program through June of 2007 and will be working very closely with the panel builders to ensure the satisfaction of our customers.  Crossbow will always support our customers and will do everything in our power to ensure that they are taken care of.

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_________________
Michael Smith
Application Engineer Inertial Systems
Crossbow Technology
msmith@xbow.com

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