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ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:05 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

"David Key" wrote: << Negative is you can not fly over densely popluated

areas, the yellow part on a sectional.  That could become an issue where I

live. >>



 



David, and Fellow Kolbers -



 



This, to me, is the primary advantage of certifying our Kolbs as

"Experimental/Amateur-Built" (51 percent kit) aircraft, versus "Experimental

Light Sport Aircraft."  



 



Ex/Am-Built aircraft are allowed by the FARs to fly over densely populated

areas, "provided that sufficient altitude is maintained that a safe,

emergency landing can be made in the event engine power is lost."  I fly

1000 feet AGL over cities (the yellow areas on a sectional).



 



The new LSA le does not allow Experimental LSA to fly over "densely

populated areas."



 



Keep this in mind when applying for your airworthiness certificate from the

FAA.



 



Dennis Kirby



Mark-III, 912 in 



Cedar Crest, NM

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<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>David Key wrote:

 Negative is you can not fly over densely popluated areas, the yellow

part on a sectional. That could become an issue where I live. 



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>David, and Fellow Kolbers 



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This, to me, is the primary

advantage of certifying our Kolbs as Experimental/Amateur-Built (51

percent kit) aircraft, versus Experimental Light Sport Aircraft.

<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Ex/Am-Built aircraft are

allowed by the <st1:place w:st=3D"on">FARs</st1:place> to fly over densely populated

areas, provided that sufficient altitude is maintained that a safe,

emergency landing can be made in the event engine power is lost. I

fly 1000 feet AGL over cities (the yellow areas on a sectional).



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>The new LSA le does not

allow Experimental LSA to fly over densely populated areas.



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Keep this in mind when

applying for your airworthiness certificate from the FAA.



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Dennis Kirby



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Mark-III, 912 in 



<span

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Cedar Crest, NM

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kolbmark3

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Mt Clemens, MI

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

Does the clasification affect the medical required- driver's license vs FAA

medical?



Jim

---

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_________________
Jim
Mark III
Mt. Clemens, MI

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

If the Experimental-Amateur Built (E-AB) aircraft has the flying

characteristics that put it into the Experimental-Light Sport Aircraft

(E-LSA) category, then a Sport Pilot can fly it.  Thus, you can

possess a SP license, with no medical required, and still fly an E-AB

aircraft (assuming it meets the E-LSA requirements).



  -- Robert

On 2/1/06, flykolb <flykolb(at)wowway.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 Does the clasification affect the medical required- driver's license vs FAA

 medical?



 Jim

 ---

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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

Mike Schnabel

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Manchester, TN

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

Another question...

   

  Does 51% built mean built by the flyer of the aircraft? What if a 51% kit is purchased, and built by another other than the pilot?

   

  I purchased a completely built Firestar 2, that was a kit, then paid to be built by an experienced builder... then sold to me. Do i still have the the option of either "Experimental/Amateur-Built" (51 percent kit) aircraft, or is my only option "Experimental Light Sport Aircraft"

   

  Whew,,, this can get confusing...

   

  Mike S

  Manchester TN

  Firestar 2 503

   

  do not archive



flykolb <flykolb(at)wowway.com> wrote:

  



Does the clasification affect the medical required- driver's license vs FAA

medical?



Jim

---

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

Mike, I don't know a whole lot about other red tape but on this subject 

I speak

from experience.  Number one is you have to have a history on the plane;

that is documentation of the building process by the previous builder..

The FAA doesn't care who did it so much as a written account of the

process.   What it  comes down to is that they REALLY want to

do an airworthiness inspection on it and get a legal N number on your

ride.  If you have to fudge the builder's log a little (?) so be it.

Make it look good.  Pictures, lots of words.  If the guy, designated 

whoopde-do

or whatever, looks at your craft and it LOOKS GREAT.  You're in.

-Keep us posted.

-BB   do no archive

ps, the W&B is way up there on the list

On 31, Jan 2006, at 8:03 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote:



[quote] 



 Another question...



   Does 51% built mean built by the flyer of the aircraft? What if a 

 51% kit is purchased, and built by another other than the pilot?



   I purchased a completely built Firestar 2, that was a kit, then paid 

 to be built by an experienced builder... then sold to me. Do i still 

 have the the option of either "Experimental/Amateur-Built" (51 percent 

 kit) aircraft, or is my only option "Experimental Light Sport 

 Aircraft"



   Whew,,, this can get confusing...



   Mike S

   Manchester TN

   Firestar 2 503



   do not archive



 flykolb <flykolb(at)wowway.com> wrote:

   



 Does the clasification affect the medical required- driver's license 

 vs FAA

 medical?



 Jim

 ---

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Mike Schnabel

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Manchester, TN

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

Thanks Robert for the advice. This plane was built by Bryan Melborne, who i have learned is a very well respected builder of many a Kolb Aircraft. I will contact him for any help to document its construction. Apart from that, it has only 0.5 hours that was run to test fly, and past that it has rested waiting silently in its enclosed trailer. I will work on developing some history. Thanks again!

   

  Mike S

  Manchester TN

  Firestar 2 503

   

  do not archive



robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:

  



Mike, I don't know a whole lot about other red tape but on this subject 

I speak

from experience. Number one is you have to have a history on the plane;

that is documentation of the building process by the previous builder..

The FAA doesn't care who did it so much as a written account of the

process. What it comes down to is that they REALLY want to

do an airworthiness inspection on it and get a legal N number on your

ride. If you have to fudge the builder's log a little (?) so be it.

Make it look good. Pictures, lots of words. If the guy, designated 

whoopde-do

or whatever, looks at your craft and it LOOKS GREAT. You're in.

-Keep us posted.

-BB do no archive

ps, the W&B is way up there on the list

On 31, Jan 2006, at 8:03 PM, Mike Schnabel wrote:



[quote] 



 Another question...



 Does 51% built mean built by the flyer of the aircraft? What if a 

 51% kit is purchased, and built by another other than the pilot?



 I purchased a completely built Firestar 2, that was a kit, then paid 

 to be built by an experienced builder... then sold to me. Do i still 

 have the the option of either "Experimental/Amateur-Built" (51 percent 

 kit) aircraft, or is my only option "Experimental Light Sport 

 Aircraft"



 Whew,,, this can get confusing...



 Mike S

 Manchester TN

 Firestar 2 503



 do not archive



 flykolb wrote:

 



 Does the clasification affect the medical required- driver's license 

 vs FAA

 medical?



 Jim

 ---

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

Hi All,



I had a FAA rep., in Tucson,  tell me last month that they are in the process of changing the no flight over densley populated areas this year. He said we should all be allowed some time this year. He read the new rule to me at the time.



I hope it comes through.



I was going to have my Kolb Mark III set up as experimental-amateur built, but it took alot more paperwork and a paper trail. (I did not build mine)

I left mine Light sport and I'm just as happy.

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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: ELSA vs. E/AB Privileges

 	  Quote: 	
		   I had a FAA rep., in Tucson,  tell me last month that they are in the process of changing the no flight over densley populated areas this year. He said we should all be allowed some time this year. He read the new rule to me at the time.


	


I sure hope you're right, but I'll believe it when I see it.  I mean,

they won't even let LSA amphibs raise/lower their gear in flight. 

What horse-patootie!



  -- R

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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

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