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Deems Davis
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925
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 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:14 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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I have an interference issue with the lower crossmember. With the 2
bottom mounts and bolts in place the bottom of the sump is resting on
the cross member and the top ears/mounts are 1/8-3/16" off. I'm not sure
if it's a problem with the mount, (unlikely) as Scott Risan (at) Van's said
the made a change to the position of the cross member after Tim reported
his situation. It's more likely due to the Cold Air Induction system
which has a custom cast oil sump that in all likelihood varies somewhat
from Lycoming stock. When talking to Scott , who was EXTREMELY helpful.
He said that after the change they made they had reports of some engines
where the tolerance was VERY close, but mine was the 1st incident since
of an obstruction. He wanted to check the mount to make sure something
hadn't changed in their process. (I received my mount Aug 06). The mount
is in transit to Van's this week, Scott said the fix only takes 1/2
hour and he'd return it as soon as possible.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Rob Wright wrote:
[quote]
Deems, what went wrong with your mount, or do you have a close tolerance a
la Tim O?
Rob Wright
#392
Engine mount on horizon
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speckter(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:59 am Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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I needed to grind off some of the fins on the bottom ob my cold air
induction sump to give the clearance I was comfortable with.
Gary
40274
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:44 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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Gary, just a question based on A & P school experience. Why would anyone grind a fin on an engine rather than have the errant clearance corrected by a properly modified engine mount?
Does anyone know if VANS is yet properly modifying the mount or will Deems' be the first sole with a third generation modification? I am waiting with anticipation to hear that his mount was a first generation "non modified" variety.
On a second note, How does BPA feel about kit builders grinding their engine components? This might just be an important point on Safety being passed over by the reading audience.
John Cox
(back from CES '2007)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of gary
Sent: Wed 1/10/2007 3:59 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
I needed to grind off some of the fins on the bottom ob my cold air
induction sump to give the clearance I was comfortable with.
Gary
40274
--
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speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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OK for you inquiring minds. BPA suggested grinding off the fins to fit the mount. BPA sump has very tall fins for cooling on it and it does not hurt it to grind off some for clearance.
Vans won’t talk to us BPA users because we are “Hot Roders”. They told me I was on my own on that. Wonderful Aircraft and for the most part a good company, but sometimes they just drive you nuts.
Gary
40274
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
Gary, just a question based on A & P school experience. Why would anyone grind a fin on an engine rather than have the errant clearance corrected by a properly modified engine mount?
Does anyone know if VANS is yet properly modifying the mount or will Deems' be the first sole with a third generation modification? I am waiting with anticipation to hear that his mount was a first generation "non modified" variety.
On a second note, How does BPA feel about kit builders grinding their engine components? This might just be an important point on Safety being passed over by the reading audience.
John Cox
(back from CES '2007)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of gary
Sent: Wed 1/10/2007 3:59 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
--> RV10-List message posted by: "gary" <speckter(at)comcast.net>
I needed to grind off some of the fins on the bottom ob my cold air
induction sump to give the clearance I was comfortable with.
Gary
40274
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BPA(at)bpaengines.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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John,
The area of the sump that seems to be causing interference issues on
some of the RV-10 mounts are fins on the bottom of the sump in the very
rear under the oil pickup on the casting. These fins are there for no
particular reason other than aesthetics (looks cool). On the first
couple of sumps that we supplied for the RV-10's with this interference
problem, we used a die grinder and removed the fins without getting into
the 'meat' or integral part of the sump. Tim had a fit issue with the
standard sump and Van's determined that there may be slight differences
in the PMA sump based most likely on vendor changes, and modified his
mount. We've seen this as well on other components. From what I gathered
through the RV-10 list the original design was modified to accept these
variances. As it turns out, this may not be the case.
There is no reason, safety wise that the fins cannot be removed for
clearance purposes. A better solution in my opinion would be to change
the bar on the bottom of the mount. This can be done by the vendor that
supplies the mounts to Van's, or I have a contact here in Oklahoma who
will gladly do the work.
Regards,
Allen Barrett
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
www.barretprecisionengines.com
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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Thanks for the reply. Grinding can induce microscopic fractures. In school we had to Dye-Pen the work to confirm acceptance and no cracks. At work, we just yell for an NDT specialist to get off their butt and co-sign our artwork (its a little more complex than that actually). My partner in school thought he would be cute and sand blasted it which effectively hid the cracks. It was nearly a failure of the class for failing to willfully not following approved Lycoming procedures.
I am a supporter of sound mods. Am guessing you have escaped the "Golden BB" on this one.
For those who read these posts, I hope the exercise was of value.
My solution, find an approved and certified aircraft welder of 4130 and make the mount correct. It sure seems we get shoe-horned into a tight pair at times. Now how lucky was Deem's to get Scott in a gracious moment to send it back to VANS for his BPA hot rod to get it done right at the source. Could there be a safety mod in the wind for us Slow Bloomers?
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of gary
Sent: Wed 1/10/2007 1:27 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
OK for you inquiring minds. BPA suggested grinding off the fins to fit the mount. BPA sump has very tall fins for cooling on it and it does not hurt it to grind off some for clearance.
Vans won't talk to us BPA users because we are "Hot Roders". They told me I was on my own on that. Wonderful Aircraft and for the most part a good company, but sometimes they just drive you nuts.
Gary
40274
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 3:44 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
Gary, just a question based on A & P school experience. Why would anyone grind a fin on an engine rather than have the errant clearance corrected by a properly modified engine mount?
Does anyone know if VANS is yet properly modifying the mount or will Deems' be the first sole with a third generation modification? I am waiting with anticipation to hear that his mount was a first generation "non modified" variety.
On a second note, How does BPA feel about kit builders grinding their engine components? This might just be an important point on Safety being passed over by the reading audience.
John Cox
(back from CES '2007)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of gary
Sent: Wed 1/10/2007 3:59 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
I needed to grind off some of the fins on the bottom ob my cold air
induction sump to give the clearance I was comfortable with.
Gary
40274
--
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apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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What's your target now John? Osh 2020? or Copperstate 2015?
On 1/10/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
Could there be a safety mod in the wind for us Slow Bloomers?
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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I retire officially in 2014 so I go onto Deem's schedule then. I am having too much fun helping other builders through the briar patch to accelerate the pace much. There is always Rob Hickman or John Jessen to set pace with locally.
And Kelly... while you are at it what is your build number and pace for the audience?
John - #600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wed 1/10/2007 2:39 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
What's your target now John? Osh 2020? or Copperstate 2015?
On 1/10/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
Could there be a safety mod in the wind for us Slow Bloomers?
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting |
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# XXXX, potential start date around the end of the year. Like you,
retirement is still down the road, and way too much work to do on my
Mooney and helping other plane owners. Sounds like my Copperstate 2015
wasn't too far off, eh? 8^)
Maybe I'll be right there with you.
On 1/10/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I retire officially in 2014 so I go onto Deem's schedule then. I am having too much fun helping other builders through the briar patch to accelerate the pace much. There is always Rob Hickman or John Jessen to set pace with locally.
And Kelly... while you are at it what is your build number and pace for the audience?
John - #600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wed 1/10/2007 2:39 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine mount was - Source for Laser/WaterJet cutting
What's your target now John? Osh 2020? or Copperstate 2015?
On 1/10/07, John W. Cox <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
Could there be a safety mod in the wind for us Slow Bloomers?
>
> John
>
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