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Fuel Tank Update

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colsonj(at)provide.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

I've looked at the archives on fuel tank problems  and fixes and I gather Skystars last fuel tanks where built using a vinyl ester  resin.Has anyone using that tank experienced problems with auto fuel and the  additives?I've pulled the 13 gal.tanks on my 1992 IV 1050 and I'm concidering  buying Johns new tanks and I'd like to continue to use auto  fuel.Cliff

   [quote][b]

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Tank Update

currenty I'm running on the left tank, which I believe is one of those tanks, I replaced the smaller tank on the left wing with a new larger one bought from skystar two years ago just before they went defunked.  I put in auto fuel and locally it's suppose to have 10% alchahol, and it's also oxegenated, whatever that is suppose to mean, totally.  I've been a mechanic for 28 years and I still don't fully understand what they are doing with our fuel, if you know what I mean.

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Tank Update

Ya gotta be a stinking politician or a corn-belt lobbyist to know what they are doing to our fuel.  Maine has so far resisted jumping on the ethanol band wagon, but I think it's only a matter of time before some hack bureaucrats put the squeeze on us to comply with their voodoo science.

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:11 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Tank Update

I agree, we are left pretty well in the dark.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

Cliff,



I have researeched Vinyl Ester resins and it seems that there are numerous 

formulations.   Some are formulated for alcohol resistance, others for other 

purposes.  I have been running an experiment since October first of 2006 and 

have several balsa wood floats coated with: 1) the vinyl ester resin 

avalilable from Aircraft Spruce, 2) Kreem, the fuel tank sloshing compound 

provided by Skystar, and 3) Gas Tank Sealer from JC Whitney.  I have these 

floats in test tubes in California auto gas - 7% ethanol, I believe, and 

denatured alcohol 97% ethonol.



Periodically, I take the floats up to a virtual altitude of 14,000 ft. which 

is likely above the service ceiling of our aircraft.  This allows me to 

check for a violation of the integrety of the coating as in a low pressure 

environment, the air in the balsa would expand and force it's way through 

the coating resulting on a bubble or bubbles on the surface of the float. 

This vacuum testis done in a bell jar and is observed closely.



I can tell you this much.  Keep in mind that the vinyl ester resin from 

Aircraft Spruce in an unknown quantity as it comes in a plain can with only 

a flamability lable and the ACS part number.  I think it is a 3M product per 

the ACS catalogue, but have been unable to indentify it more closely than 

that.  The vinyl ester resin is the only one to date that has any detectable 

reaction to the alcohol.  In both instances - the 7% and the 97% the surface 

has lost it's sheen.  None of the floats covered with the tank sealer have 

shown any difference in appearance.



To examine the surface appearance of the floats, they must be dried.  After 

returning the floats to their respective fluid environments, the sealer 

coated floats showed no difference taken to the 14,000 ft. pressure, but the 

vinyl ester floats showed that they had absorbed air in to the resin layer 

as thousands of near microscopic bubbles were seen coming from the entire 

resin surface.



What does this all mean?  Who knows for sure, but I have the 1992/3 fuel 

tanks Kreem sloshed.  I am happy with that.  For my own personal sense of 

well being, if I had the newer vinyl ester resin tanks, I would slosh them 

with Kreem using the Kreem guidelines with some info gleaned from this list 

regarding thinning of the Kreem before sloshing.



Other opinions may vary.



Lowell



---

nealscherm(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

OK,

 So how are you thinning the slosh? I have the new tanks and will take your suggestion.

 Thanks,

 Neal

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net> 



[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" 

 

 Cliff, 

 

 I have researeched Vinyl Ester resins and it seems that there are numerous 

 formulations. Some are formulated for alcohol resistance, others for other 

 purposes. I have been running an experiment since October first of 2006 and 

 have several balsa wood floats coated with: 1) the vinyl ester resin 

 avalilable from Aircraft Spruce, 2) Kreem, the fuel tank sloshing compound 

 provided by Skystar, and 3) Gas Tank Sealer from JC Whitney. I have these 

 floats in test tubes in California auto gas - 7% ethanol, I believe, and 

 denatured alcohol 97% ethonol. 

 

 Periodically, I take the floats up to a vir  tual a ltitude of 14,000 ft. which 

 is likely above the service ceiling of our aircraft. This allows me to 

 check for a violation of the integrety of the coating as in a low pressure 

 environment, the air in the balsa would expand and force it's way through 

 the coating resulting on a bubble or bubbles on the surface of the float. 

 This vacuum testis done in a bell jar and is observed closely. 

 

 I can tell you this much. Keep in mind that the vinyl ester resin from 

 Aircraft Spruce in an unknown quantity as it comes in a plain can with only 

 a flamability lable and the ACS part number. I think it is a 3M product per 

 the ACS catalogue, but have been unable to indentify it more closely than 

 that. The vinyl ester resin is the only one to date that has any detectable 

 reaction to the alcohol. In both instances - the 7% and the 97% the surface 

 has lost it's sheen. None of the floats   cover ed with the tank sealer have 

 shown any difference in appearance. 

 

 To examine the surface appearance of the floats, they must be dried. After 

 returning the floats to their respective fluid environments, the sealer 

 coated floats showed no difference taken to the 14,000 ft. pressure, but the 

 vinyl ester floats showed that they had absorbed air in to the resin layer 

 as thousands of near microscopic bubbles were seen coming from the entire 

 resin surface. 

 

 What does this all mean? Who knows for sure, but I have the 1992/3 fuel 

 tanks Kreem sloshed. I am happy with that. For my own personal sense of 

 well being, if I had the newer vinyl ester resin tanks, I would slosh them 

 with Kreem using the Kreem guidelines with some info gleaned from this list 

 regarding thinning of the Kreem before sloshing. 

 

 Other opinions may vary. 

 

 Lowell     [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

Voodoo science??



What an overt dirty insult to true Voodoo science!



Noel

When You're right, you're right!

[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

crazyivan

Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 62
Location: Pensacola

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Tank Update

My apology to all of the Voodoo Scientists I insulted.  You are all a million times better than the stinking politicians and the lobbyists.

_________________
Dave
Piper PA-22/20

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Tank Update

one note on the new tank that I got from skystar, it's fiberglass and I asked if it needed to be sloshed, frank told me no.  So I didn't.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

Cliff,



I hope someone chimes in here if I have this wrong, but I think the 

recommendation is that you first rinse with Acetone to remove any residue 

that may be in the tank.  For some reason there tends to be a build up of 

pressure when rinsing, so have some way to bleed that off during the rinse. 

Thin the Kreem with MEK 50:50 and use that for the slosh.  Follow the 

directions on the btle  for the actual sloshing.



Regarding MEK, before anyone chimes in about its hazards, please do a Google 

search and read the MSDS.  There are far too many urban legends on this 

stuff.



Lowell

---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

all you guys ..sheesh

GREASE IS BLUE  AND LITHIUM



HERE IT IS    http://www.valvoline.ca/pages/products/heavyduty.asp



            All-Fleet Cerulean #2 Grease

            Valvoline Cerulean Grease (Blue Lithium Complex) is a premium 

grease designed to meet the stressful demands of off-road, commercial fleet 

and industrial environments. It provides excellent performance over a 

variety of operating conditions and may displace other top-of-the-line 

greases for severe and general purpose lubrication.

              a.. Is designed as a tacky, lithium complex grease containing 

a high level of select extreme-pressure additives for maximum loading 

protection

              b.. Contains oxidation, rust and corrosion inhibitors for 

long-life performance

              c.. Features excellent resistance to water washout

              d.. Is dyed blue for easy identification



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dafox(at)ckt.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: Fuel Tank Update

Dave,  I'm with you !!!  

  

         This is  all a political movement, it can't last.  if they took all the  corn

 in the United States  and turned it in to  Ethanol, it would only amount to

 15 % of the fuel supply.  in the mean time  there would be no feed for the

 live stock, wild animals, birds and etc. and  how about corn meal? No

 Taco's  either,  this ain't  good

           

         This  government for the people is way out of hand.....      David

 [quote]   ---

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