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jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
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 Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: Why is it such a bad thing |
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Gary that woulds be Jerry Stephens in the John Deer RV-4  He is from
Independance, OR
Jerry
do not archive
RV6 Flyer wrote:
| Quote: |
DO NOT ARCHIVE
He did NOT build the airplane.
Those of us that were on this list flying our airplanes when this
happened, had a discussion about the airplane having been just
purchased and the new owner's desire for TRANSITION TRAINING.
I remember this accident. I waited at Harvey Airport with my airplane
and an RV-4 that was painted like a John Deere Tractor. The pilot of
the RV-4 wore a John Deere hat while he flew. We were just minutes
late arriving at Arlington. A few minutes sooner and we would have
landed right before the airport closed for the air show. I saw video
of the accident scene from a news hello while eating dinner at Harvey.
The RV-4 I was flying with did not have a transponder and we used my
transponder operating as a FLIGHT of two under the Bravo airspace.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,976 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
----Original Message Follows----
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Why is it such a bad thing
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 17:52:29 -0800 (PST)
<lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
And he built the plane KNOWING it was experimental and
that he COULD die in the plane.
Darrell Reiley
RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket"
N622DR Reserved
N469RV Reserved
CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com
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Vanremog(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: Why is it such a bad thing |
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In a message dated 1/18/2007 9:11:15 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rocketbob(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | Could we please get back to technical discussions, and get the S/N ratio back down to where it ought to be? |
=============================
I think Bob meant to get it UP where it should be, right (signal greater than noise)?
Wow, this post actually added to the noise... Doh, never mind!
Do not archive.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 830hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
[quote][b]
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cjensen(at)dts9000.com
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:55 am Post subject: Why is it such a bad thing |
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ptrotter wrote:
| Quote: | I also assume
that the pilot was not participating in the airshow itself and had
just
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| Quote: | flown in as a spectator. I also assume that he did not take off
during the
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| Quote: | waivered period. If these assumptions are correct, then I don't see
how
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| Quote: | EAA, as the airshow sponser, could be responsible, as they do not
control
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| Quote: | the airport during non-waivered time, and have no responsibility for
airport
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| Quote: | operations and services outside of the time the airshow is actually
going
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| Quote: | on. For all practical purposes, the pilot was simply taking off as he
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| Quote: | probably has from many airports. In fact, I don't see how the EAA
could be
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| Quote: | responsible for providing any airport operation services to
non-participants
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Quite possibly the most cogent argument I've heard... anywhere....
ever.... about anything.
Bob Collins
*****
Even this situation isn't as simple as it may seem. There is a legal
theory about an attractive nuisance. The EAA and Fly In operators
created an attractive nuisance by publicizing and hold the fly in. But
for the fly in, it's quite reasonable to expect that the accident pilot
would never have flown into this airport. And, if he hadn't been at the
airport, the accident could not have happened. Railroads crossings are
held to be an attractive nuisance before the law, which automatically
places a certain burden on them including train lighting, keeping the
weeds cut away and other ordinary and necessary precautions because of
the nuisance they created. The analogy is not a long stretch. Had
there been no air show, there would have been no accident...at least at
that time to that pilot. So, the fly in has a duty to provide general
rule-of-the-road directions, instructions, parking area, flight line
personnel to direct planes, wing walkers, et al. Absent these, chaos
would reign (even more than usual). Fair? I don't know, but its
intended to create a fair and safe playing field for all participants.
Chuck Jensen
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Bob Collins
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:31 am Post subject: Why is it such a bad thing |
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Does anyone have a picture of this? I would LOVE to see this RV!
Do not archive
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_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
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prtrotter
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: Why is it such a bad thing |
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Chuck C
6nbsp;
I agree with you to some extent but I don 7t think the railroad comparison is valid E 6nbsp; 6nbsp; In the case of the railroad crossing C the railroad added something that was not there before and affected previous operations E 6nbsp; In the airshow case C normal airport operation take continued with respect to the operation of aircraft on take-off and that did not change due to the airshow other than increased volume E 6nbsp; If it was a towered airport C it is ATC 7s responsibility to control aircraft on the ground and in the air and for a non-towered airport C it is the pilot 7s responsibility E 6nbsp; The airport and/or the airshow sponsor may have some responsibility to provide certain services such as crowd control and wing walking C but that responsibility ends when the plane takes the runway E 6nbsp; Even at Oshkosh C direction and wing walking ends at a cetrain point and ATC takes over E 6nbsp; Even if the airport operator or the airshow sponsor wanted to provide greater control there may not be able to as it might conflict with FAA rules E 6nbsp; I agree that if it were not for the airshow C there would not have been an accident C but I believe that the airshow sponsors responibility ends when the plane takes the active runway E 6nbsp; The airport operator C on the otherhand C may have some responsibility to provide standard airport services such as emergency response E 6nbsp; The issue comes down to whether those services should have been enhanced due to the greater number of planes using the airport at this time and who would be responsible for enhancing the service E
6nbsp;
Although I am not a lawyer C I would expect the attractive nuisance theory to apply to negligence on the part of the entity creating the attractive nuisance C not negligence on the part someone attracted by that nuisance E 6nbsp; This case 2seems 2 to be a case of negligence on the part of the pilot C although as Bob keeps stating C we don 7t have all the facts E
6nbsp;
Paul
Do Not Archive
6nbsp;
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