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rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:04 am Post subject: Shop Organization

I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc.



It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile.



So what has worked well for you?  Equally important, what didn't work well for you.



thanks,



bob

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: Shop Organization

In a message dated 1/19/2007 11:07:37 AM Eastern Standard Time,  rvmail(at)thelefflers.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  It seems    to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after    awhile.



So what has worked well for you?  	


 

     I bought a bunch of the little stackable bins at Harbor  Freight, then added labels (marker would work) and this is good for all the  small parts. I have about 4 tall and maybe 10 wide on a shelf.   

  

     I have clear, stackable tupperware (cheap)  like  bins for rivets.  Mine are about 6 x 6 inces and 1.5 inches tall.   They are very hard to tip over. Label all sides with the rivet size...makes life  easy.   The cleco's go in bins and are very easy to manage. 

  

 Steve

  

 do not archive

  [quote][b]

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: Shop Organization

rvmail(at)thelefflers.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile.

   


	


    Heh heh, I've been keeping them all in the bags...    I make sure

there is a good label on the bag, and tend to keep the "like" rivets

together, such as flush AD-3s in one group, flush AD-4s in another, etc.



    Other have used things like this:

<http://www.fodcontrol.com/trey.html>



or this:

<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ha/cabinet.html>



-Dj

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:30 am Post subject: Shop Organization

Good question Bob.  One thing: It's probably one more

of those situations where what works for one might not be

the favorite solution for another.



Here's mine:



I finally got tired of missing rivets and

nuts/washers/bolts/screws.  After a while I decided that

the only way to own a plane long term was to just go to

Van's and Aircraft Spruce and order extras of all normal

sized AN3 bolts, and many AN4 bolts. Even a few AN5's.

I also bought many extra pop rivets, and quantities of

the driven rivets.  Same with washers of all sizes, nuts

of all sizes, including all-metal locknuts for in the engine

area.   ALL of this hardware I just sorted out into those

drawer type desktop bins.  (The rivets are in those

spring-hinge lid carrying trays for portability).  That

way you get used to finding standard hardware items

in a standard area...and it's easy to see if you're down

on quantity after you get done with the kit...so you can

keep a couple of everything on hand.



For the more specialized hardware, I found it easiest

just to have 3 or 4 small shoebox type bins handy, with

all of the baggies stacked in numerical order, and the

baggie parts lists on top of each bin full of parts.  It

made it quick to locate all of the required special

parts during the build, and as one bin thinned out, you

knew you were getting done with that section.   I just

numbered the bins with tape labels with the bag numbers

that were inside.  Eventually you end up with one

small bin of some misc. things.



For the large parts, I stored them on shelves or stuffed

away in the basement in stacks so I could find them easily.

The fuselage and finishing kit parts I often left in

the big box, all laid out for easy viewing.  The special

parts (like aileron trim kit, flap position sensor, lights...)

all went onto a set of shelves too.



Being organized will take time to set up, but it will save

time in the long run too.  I was absolutely not

organized though, as I still had a few times where I

looked for a half hour to find a part.  Some people go even

further and database everything.  Lots of good ideas, but

any one method isn't for everyone.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

rvmail(at)thelefflers.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites,

 but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all

 the various rivets, screws, etc.

 

 It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming

 problematic after awhile.

 

 So what has worked well for you?  Equally important, what didn't work

 well for you.

 

 thanks,

 

 bob

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:47 am Post subject: Shop Organization

What worked well for me was to buy some of those parts cabinets and

unload everything into the drawers.  Label each drawer and then recycle

unused ones when the next kit shows.  It probably takes me about 4 hours

to inventory the bags and get the parts put away and the bins labeled,

but it saves a lot of time on the backend.  Some pics are here:



http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=msausen&project 2&categ

ory=619



Michael Sausen

-10 #352 limbo



--

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:48 am Post subject: Shop Organization

Bob



I am sure there are wiser people than I on the list, but as one who has

asked the same questions here is what I did. 



The Yard Store (www.yardstore.com) sells the Extreme Rivet Tray which has

spring loaded covers. Given that I have knocked it off my table once and

didn't spill a single rivet, I can attest that it turned what have been a

very "riveting" experience into a non event. Here is a link to it:



http://www.yardstore.com/index.cfm?action=ViewDetails&ItemID=885



As well, I got some small parts trays (with a cover) that I used to organize

all the bits and bobs that came with my tail kit. After inventorying each

bag, I put the contents into the appropriate bin which was labeled with

Avery computer labels. So far, I have always been able to find a part within

seconds and have not lost anything. I can sent you the empennage parts bin

labels electronically if you wish - they are printed on standard Avery

Labels.



Each subit was inventoried into a separate parts bin. I kept the subkits

intact so I could always find a particular part by referincing the Vans part

list and just looking in the appropraite bin. Parts that were too large to

put in bins were lfet in the shipping crates so they wouldn't get damaged. I

installed hinges on the flat shipping crate so the lid would open easily and

safely.



I have a few Rubbermaid plastic bins into which I place all the parts I

"pull" when building a particular subassembly. At the end of the day all

parts go back into the bin so the chances of losing a small item in the

workshop debris is limited. I also try not to leave things on the workbench

or elsewhere while working - everything goes back into the bin until needed.



Cheers



Les Kearney

RV10 # 40643 - Lost in the empennage



--

Vern(at)teclabsinc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: Shop Organization

Rubbermaid makes a small clear plastic box (~6" x 6" x 1 1/2") with six

or seven compartments. They also make bigger ones for the larger bolts

and fittings. I use several of these for my rivets and other items (ie

nutplates, bolts, ect.). Then I use a sharpie to mark the different

sizes or part numbers on the top of the lid. The down side is I once

flipped the box over with the lid open and mixed the rivet sizes up. The

good news was I was just finishing the wings so the box was almost

empty. 



Vern Smith (#324 fuselage)

Do not archive



--

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: Shop Organization

What has worked the best for us is to buy little trays with lids like you

can guy in the fishing department of Wal-Mart.  The trays need to be able to

close and latch, then you really want a clear plastic lid (all IMHO).  Write

the size of the rivet on the lid and on the back of each compartment.  We

have 3-4 trays for rivets, one for screws, 1 each for AN3, AN4 and AN5 bolts

(with washers and nuts in the same drawer), 1 for special washers, 1 for

special nuts, 1 for snap bushings, 1 or 2 for rod end bearings and threaded

rod ends (which you could do without, but it is nice to keep them this way),

and a couple extras for misc stuff.  In fact, one time I found a little set

of 4 trays that fit in a little carrying case with a handle.  It is so nice

to be able to grab a tray or set of trays and take it where you are working

with, say, AN3 bolts and have everything you need right there with you.

Also, getting the set of bolts/nuts/washers that Spruce sells is a great

help in case you need to go up or down a size somewhere.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

www.saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



--

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: Shop Organization

All the answers you'll get are correct, in this particular category.

However, Les is leading a charmed life.  I've knocked over my spring lidded

marvel of an rivet tray and this is what good it did me.....



http://www.soundingsresearch.com/RV-10/Images/Empennage/Tailcone/IMG_3525_30

.html



So, as others have pointed out, your mileage will definitely vary.  



I like to pick up some take out food on the way to the hanger, which is

definitely adding to the overall cost of the plane.  Usually I get some type

of soup, mainly because the plastic containers are just the right size with

a lid that stays put.  Makes for great storage for bulk or oversized parts.

But mostly I use one of the many platic drawer organizers that you can pick

up for cheap at HD or Sears.  Get one with large drawers and one with all

small drawers and you'll almost have enough room.  I actually do like the

spring loaded rivet tray, but depending on how it hits a cement floor, it

may not perform all that well.  



But the most important thing is to take the time to sort and label

everything, no matter the container system.  This will be well worth it in

the long run.  I typically label by both part number and bag number.  



Have fun!  



John Jessen

  #328 (back at it tomorrow!  Huzzah!)



--

drfred(at)suddenlinkmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:21 am Post subject: Shop organization

I uploaded a couple of pictures to mykitlog on how I've organized 

things.  Basically, just get several plastic boxes and bin organizers 

from Wal-Mart or your local supplier.  Get some tape and a sharpie and 

label the bins. 



Make sure whatever you have your rivets in is lockable.  There are too 

many stories of wasted weekends trying to separate out fallen rivets.  

Open the container, get a few out and transfer them to a 35 mm plastic 

can or small lid.  Lock the big box up and never set it where it can 

spill. 



Another thing that I have found helpful is my woodworking bench.  Wood 

blocks and some hold downs are very helpful when you are trying to rivet 

a long spar.  You always seem to need a third hand.  I think I uploaded 

some pics when I built the flaps.  Also on Mykitlog.



I'll take a couple of pics of some riveting tips that I have found 

useful.  Especially when putting several thicknesses of parts together.



Hope this helps. 



Fred Williams

40515

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:48 am Post subject: Shop Organization

Rivet trays.  Go to www.yardstore.com page# 16 in their catalog (Cat# 70 

2006), part# 14299 for new ones. I ordered two of their "used" ones. Great 

trays, carry handle, spring loaded covers (in case you forget to close 

them). Can hold from 8 to 16 different sizes (16 if you buy the split 

inserts). I bought two trays five years ago, GREAT item. Get on their 

mailing list, they always have specials going. Used tools etc.  KABONG HRII 

N561FS  Archive this one.



Subject: RE: Shop Organization

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 What has worked the best for us is to buy little trays with lids like you

 can guy in the fishing department of Wal-Mart.  The trays need to be able 

 to

 close and latch, then you really want a clear plastic lid (all IMHO). 

 Write

 the size of the rivet on the lid and on the back of each compartment.  We

 have 3-4 trays for rivets, one for screws, 1 each for AN3, AN4 and AN5 

 bolts

bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: Shop Organization

I went down to the local aircraft supply store, Home Depot and bought 3

cabinets, plastic with trays in them 2 1/4 high by about 4 1/2 wide by 5

deep and they are three columns and 6 rows.  Now wish I had bought 4, but it

has keep me out of the bag search.  



Bob K 90/90



--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:54 am Post subject: Shop Organization

John (and all),



I've done this once before myself....actually, I spilled

some rivets twice.  I do have a great solution to the cleanup

though.  Here's what I did:



Took a plastic large peanut butter jar, and 2 pieces of hose.

Tygon, or poly tubing will work fine, with an I.D. of 1/4"

or more.  Put 2 holes in the jar lid, and stick both tubes

into the jar.  One tub only goes through about 1 inch. That

tube gets hooked to your shop vac.  The other tube gets stuffed

down to within an inch from the bottom.  That tube is what

you use on the outside end to suck up the rivets.



So then I vacuumed them up, into the jar, but when I vacuumed

them I tried to scatter them enough to only suck same-sized

rivets.  Hopefully you'll maybe spill one size mainly, and

only a few oddballs.    After you vac up one size, just empty

the jar and do another.  You should be left with very few

rivets to hand sort.



The reason this happened to me is that I stuck a pen in the

lid to hold it open while I fished out rivets.  Then of

course, I bumped the box off the chair.



Anyway, it makes for easier cleanup and sorting.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John Jessen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 All the answers you'll get are correct, in this particular category.

 However, Les is leading a charmed life.  I've knocked over my spring lidded

 marvel of an rivet tray and this is what good it did me.....

 

 http://www.soundingsresearch.com/RV-10/Images/Empennage/Tailcone/IMG_3525_30

 .html

 

 So, as others have pointed out, your mileage will definitely vary.  

 

 I like to pick up some take out food on the way to the hanger, which is

 definitely adding to the overall cost of the plane.  Usually I get some type

 of soup, mainly because the plastic containers are just the right size with

 a lid that stays put.  Makes for great storage for bulk or oversized parts.

 But mostly I use one of the many platic drawer organizers that you can pick

 up for cheap at HD or Sears.  Get one with large drawers and one with all

 small drawers and you'll almost have enough room.  I actually do like the

 spring loaded rivet tray, but depending on how it hits a cement floor, it

 may not perform all that well.  

 

 But the most important thing is to take the time to sort and label

 everything, no matter the container system.  This will be well worth it in

 the long run.  I typically label by both part number and bag number.  

 

 Have fun!  

 

 John Jessen

   #328 (back at it tomorrow!  Huzzah!)

jhstarn(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Shop Organization

BUT then again I have known people who have the ability to disassemble an 

anvil too.

Do Not Archive   KABONG   8*)



 	  Quote: 	
		   All the answers you'll get are correct, in this particular category.

 However, Les is leading a charmed life.  I've knocked over my spring 

 lidded

 marvel of an rivet tray and this is what good it did me.....



 http://www.soundingsresearch.com/RV-10/Images/Empennage/Tailcone/IMG_3525_30

 .html



 So, as others have pointed out, your mileage will definitely vary.

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: Shop Organization

Do what works for you, but you really can't call yourself an RV builder 

until you've run a high speed drill through your thumb/finger/hand/ 

arm/? and spilled a container of rivets at least once !  



Do Not Archive



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



rvmail(at)thelefflers.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

I've been reading material found all over on a variety of web sites, but I'm still looking for a "best practice" on how to organize all the various rivets, screws, etc.



It seems to me that keeping them all in the bags may becoming problematic after awhile.



So what has worked well for you?  Equally important, what didn't work well for you.



thanks,



bob

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: Shop Organization

You forgot drilling a friends or spouse finger to make yourself an

experienced builder. Only once you have done this and then talked the

person into coming back out to help can you truly be one of the crazy

guys in the garage....I have even heard rumors that if you get multiple

fingers of different people the value goes up!

Dan 



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: Shop Organization

Been there done that....

Drilled finger

Drilled under finger nail

Dropped two trays of rivets....3-4, 3-4.5, did not attempt to sort, just

scoped them up, picked sizes out I needed that weekend and ordered

more....they come presorted that way.



Rene' Felker

40322

N423CF

801-721-6080

--

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: Shop Organization

You know that you are making progress towards RV builder Level 7 status when

you look down at a pile of scooped up rivets and can pick out a 3-3 from a

3-3.5 or 3-4 and get it right every time.  Telling the 3-5 from a 3-4 took

me a little bit longer, like about 5 secs.  Or, when you stick a rivet into

place and look at it before riveting and say, "that's too long" or "that's

too short."  Amazing visual computer we got in our heads.  



I consider that I'm still at Level 2.  You don't get to Level 3 until you

have the Empennage completely done, the hole in the finger, the significant

other putting want ads in the paper for a new partner, the town telling you

that you really should mow the lawn before the fire season gets going, the

car hasn't been cleaned out in months, you've dumped rivets at least once

and it fazes you not one whit, the check book not balanced and the bills

piling up, nights spent staring out the window wondering why you aren't at

the hanger building (this at midnight), built the extension to the garage or

opened a hole to the basement, and so on.  



We'll have to suppose those who are flying, have the painting done, all the

fairings done, all the electronics working like they should, and are now

simply having the time of their lives, are at Level 6.  Not sure yet what

takes you to the blissful and enviable Level 7, but this has to be reserved

for the truly spiritual.  



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: Shop Organization

Hey John, where did ya get that picture of my shop floor!  



Do not archive



--

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Shop Organization

When they were making "From the Ground Up," I was over at Oshkosh for a SportAir workshop and they let us tour the "set"  (it was the hangar) where Joe Schumacher was building  the plane. It was a FABULOUS workshop (perhaps you've seen the videos). One thing I thought was cool is he made an A-frame structure on casters. On one side he mounted all of the plans, so you could flip it up and over.



On the other side he had several rows of trays...with baby-food jars holding all the parts in an organized fashion.



I didn't construct the A-frame, but I did make a unit with shelvesof baby food jars, each holding a difference sized , rivet, platenut, screw, washer etc.



I also created spreadsheets as I unpacked each subkit, indicating where I put it, so that when it came time -- usually months later, sometimes years, I'd just fire up the spreadsheet and look it up.

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

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