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Breathing Clean Air - Masks?
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david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Ok,   

   

 I am sure I am not the only one to think about this, so I will ask the group.  

   

Has anyone thought about attaching a mask to an air scrubber to clean the air we are breathing in the cockpits?  Say using a O2 mask for our helmets, and finding something for the other end?  

   

I know Pappy has done a lot of studies on the amount of CO2 and Carbon Diox in the cockpit, and I hope to borrow his monitor in Waycross next week to monitor my A/C.  

   

David  

   

   

       [quote][b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

I know a lot of Carbon monoxide is getting into my 50 simply by the way

I feel after flights that are longer than normal.  Not really a good

thing.  I fly summer and winter with that small vent by the front

windscreen open ALL the time and try to breath THAT air.  If one could

verify that said air from that source is "clean", it would not take a

lot to build a cover and hose that then fed a mask.  



Mark Bitterlich

 

--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

In a message dated 1/19/2007 3:58:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  david(at)mcgirt.net writes:

  

 I'll bring my CO 2 monitor. 

  	  Quote: 	
		        

Ok,       

   

 I am sure I am    not the only one to think about this, so I will ask the    group.   

   

Has anyone thought    about attaching a mask to an air scrubber to clean the air we are breathing in    the cockpits?  Say using a O2 mask for our helmets, and finding something    for the other end?   

   

I know Pappy has done    a lot of studies on the amount of CO2 and Carbon Diox in the cockpit, and I    hope to borrow his monitor in Waycross next week to monitor my    A/C.   

   

David   

 

	


  [quote][b]

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Yes I have thought of it. The problem is the scrubbers are activated by heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2. There are a couple of companies that make facemask for the woodlands fire fighters. Again activated by hot air as I can deduce from their literature. It uses your expired gases from respiration to activate the porous gel pelets. The mask is a real attention getter! It would take doing PFT's on someone using the mask to see what their work of breathing is exercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers.

 Whiffs is the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. They will not even talk to me. Guess, I do not represent enough income for them!

  

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide are different. Are you monitoring CO (carbon monoxide) or CO2 (carbon dioxide).  Both can kill and both are oderless.

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Good points, the other thought I had was to create a new fresh air duct out on the wing , and route that into the cockpit to feed a mask or at least the cabin area..   I have done several 6+ hour trips in my bird, and they all ended with me a lot for fatigued than I should have been.. so I would really like to find a better solution…  

   

   

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Kemp

 Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:59 PM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?  

  

       

Yes I have thought of it. The problem is the scrubbers are activated by heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2. There are a couple of companies that make facemask for the woodlands fire fighters. Again activated by hot air as I can deduce from their literature. It uses your expired gases from respiration to activate the porous gel pelets. The mask is a real attention getter! It would take doing PFT's on someone using the mask to see what their work of breathing is exercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers.  

    

Whiffs is the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. They will not even talk to me. Guess, I do not represent enough income for them!  

    

   

    

Doc  

    

   

  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

dabear(at)damned.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

I had a similar idea, but was going to put a NACA duct near the top of

the tail to bring in fresh air. haven't done it yet.



DaBear



David McGirt wrote:

[quote]

 Good points, the other thought I had was to create a new fresh air

 duct out on the wing , and route that into the cockpit to feed a mask

 or at least the cabin area.. I have done several 6+ hour trips in my

 bird, and they all ended with me a lot for fatigued than I should have

 been.. so I would really like to find a better solution…



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 *From:* owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Roger Kemp

 *Sent:* Friday, January 19, 2007 8:59 PM

 *To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* RE: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?



 Yes I have thought of it. The problem is the scrubbers are activated

 by heat to take up CO and convert it to CO2. There are a couple of

 companies that make facemask for the woodlands fire fighters. Again

 activated by hot air as I can deduce from their literature. It uses

 your expired gases from respiration to activate the porous gel pelets.

 The mask is a real attention getter! It would take doing PFT's on

 someone using the mask to see what their work of breathing is

 exercising to see if it is practical for the YAK/CJ drivers.



 Whiffs is the company that makes the CO scrubbers for NASCAR. They

 will not even talk to me. Guess, I do not represent enough income for

 them!



 Doc



     ---

david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough room

inside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran a

video cable through there, and THAT was a pain..  but on the fiberglass on

the front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there.. 

--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

100% O2 supplied  by a closed circuit to a tight fitting aviator's mask. The fresh air source out in the wing is a good idea also. Had though that might work to but have been lazy!

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

rvfltd(at)televar.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Dave,

 I don't think you are looking at it correctly.  The air will pass easily down through the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap off the bottom of the vertical stab and add a scat tube adapter and your all set.  You will of course have to cover/cap off all the inspection holes in the trailing edge of the vertical.  Once done I would agree I would agree that this location may be the best.

 

 Always Yakin,

 Doug

 

 David McGirt wrote:

 [quote]   [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david(at)mcgirt.net> (david(at)mcgirt.net)  Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough room inside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran a video cable through there, and THAT was a pain..  but on the fiberglass on the front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there..    --

david(at)mcgirt.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Thanks Doug, had not thought of it like that  

   

   

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp

 Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:33 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?  

  

   

Dave,

 I don't think you are looking at it correctly.  The air will pass easily down through the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap off the bottom of the vertical stab and add a scat tube adapter and your all set.  You will of course have to cover/cap off all the inspection holes in the trailing edge of the vertical.  Once done I would agree I would agree that this location may be the best.

 

 Always Yakin,

 Doug

 

 David McGirt wrote:

 

   [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david(at)mcgirt.net> Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough roominside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran avideo cable through there, and THAT was a pain..  but on the fiberglass onthe front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there..   --

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

In a message dated 1/20/2007 7:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  david(at)mcgirt.net writes:

  

 My plan -- Since I replaced my generator with a alternator, I no longer  need to use the cooling air intake off the louvers.  I plan is to take this  clean high pressure area air, and route it though some kind  variable heater (yet to be designed) around the exhaust stack than  route it to the cockpit.  I would never be able to shut off the air but  vary its temperature with a push/pull knob in the cockpit. I believe that  this will increase the pressure in the cockpit, keeping the exhaust from being  sucked in by the low pressure around the cockpit.

  

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

 ____________________________________________________________-

 [quote]      

Thanks Doug, had not    thought of it like that

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Breathing Clean    Air - Masks?   

    

Dave,

I don't think you are looking at it    correctly.  The air will pass easily down through the lightning holes in    the ribs, just cap off the bottom of the vertical stab and add a scat tube    adapter and your all set.  You will of course have to cover/cap off all    the inspection holes in the trailing edge of the vertical.  Once done I    would agree I would agree that this location may be the best.



Always    Yakin,

Doug



David McGirt wrote:



[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david(at)mcgirt.net> (david(at)mcgirt.net) Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough roominside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran avideo cable through there, and THAT was a pain..  but on the fiberglass onthe front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there..   --

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Yep...shoulda bought a YAK. It came with a cockpit fresh air vent. Atleast the 85 and before models did.

 Seriously though, you could get a CRU-60, 02 regulator, install an 02 tank, and run a scat tube off the fresh air line you are insalling. Then wearing an 02 mask using those unused banoyet fittings on your helmet. That way you will be breathing fresh air via the fresh air line that originally went to your generator. 

 Doc

  

 



  

 [quote] ---

jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Have a look at a 52 – mine has this arrangement as standard (1994 model).  Has a cooling line to generator, but has another that is routed to the cockpits.  Heat again standard.  Could probably find some 52 bits and save some building.  Air can be shut off via butterfly on the cockpit air exit.  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com

 Sent: 21 January 2007 04:25 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?  

  

       

In a message dated 1/20/2007 7:45:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david(at)mcgirt.net writes:  

    

   

    

My plan -- Since I replaced my generator with a alternator, I no longer need to use the cooling air intake off the louvers.  I plan is to take this clean high pressure area air, and route it though some kind variable heater (yet to be designed) around the exhaust stack than route it to the cockpit.  I would never be able to shut off the air but vary its temperature with a push/pull knob in the cockpit. I believe that this will increase the pressure in the cockpit, keeping the exhaust from being sucked in by the low pressure around the cockpit.  

    

   

    

   

    

Jim "Pappy" Goolsby  

    

   

    

____________________________________________________________-  

  [quote]    

Thanks Doug, had not thought of it like that

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?  

   

Dave,

 I don't think you are looking at it correctly.  The air will pass easily down through the lightning holes in the ribs, just cap off the bottom of the vertical stab and add a scat tube adapter and your all set.  You will of course have to cover/cap off all the inspection holes in the trailing edge of the vertical.  Once done I would agree I would agree that this location may be the best.

 

 Always Yakin,

 Doug

 

 David McGirt wrote:  [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "David McGirt" <david(at)mcgirt.net> Good point, on the top of the tail would not work, there is not enough roominside to get a good size hose down the middle of the tail... just ran avideo cable through there, and THAT was a pain..  but on the fiberglass onthe front of the tail would not be a bad spot.. easy to route from there..   --

bwalker11(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Pappy,

  

 Before putting too much effort into this, standard Yaks  already have this identical arrangement - an approx 1 1/4" tube  between the front of the louvres, passing through an adjustable heat  muff, and exiting the outlets in the front and rear cockpits.   When I turn on the smoke, it still comes in and seems to be mostly comming in  the rear cockpit along with the exhaust fumes which are constantly comming  in.  I hav'nt tried an exhaust vent, maybe you have one and your system  will work better. 

  

 Wild Bill

 [quote]   ---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

On the original Yak 52's, many of them do not have the flap actuator covers  installed.  These covers were originally riveted inside the rear cockpit  covering the flap rod openings through the fuselage.  They had flexible,  cloth covers on the end of the metal cover which was clamped around the flap  actuator rods.  You'll know if you have them or not without even looking  because the cold air can be felt down at your feet in the rear cockpit.

  

 Possibly longer exhaust extensions, putting the exhaust stack further down  into the slip stream would help eliminate the smoke in the cockpit.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

MarkWDavis

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Syracuse, KS

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:01 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Dennis,

      Are the flap actuator tube covers available for  the YAK 52 or does someone have a picture or pattern?

  

 Mark Davis

  

 [quote]   ---

windsorsedge(at)ozemail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

Has anyone got a wiring diagram for the intercom system for the Yak52. I have a camera system that records direct to a dvd but the sound mike I’ve put in the headset doesn’t record properly so I need to wire it via the intercom system. My Yak is standard Russian  

   

     

Tim & Jessie Windsor  

   

Windsors  Edge  Vineyard  

Windsors Edge Cottages  

Top Red War Birds  

   

1039 McDonalds Rd   POKOLBIN   NSW   2320  

T/F: 02 4998 7737  

E: windsorsedge(at)ozemail.com.au  

  

         

  

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Davis

 Sent: Monday, 22 January 2007 11:01 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?  

  

     

Dennis,  

    

     Are the flap actuator tube covers available for the YAK 52 or does someone have a picture or pattern?  

    

   

    

Mark Davis  

    

   

  [quote]    

---

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

They may be available from Termikas in Lithuania or via Rob Kent in the  UK.  I do not know of any pattern available.

 Dennis

  

 [quote]   ---

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: Breathing Clean Air - Masks?

In a message dated 1/21/2007 11:25:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com writes:

  

 A number of years, before I got my present helmet and mask.  I had a  standard USAF helmet and oxygen mask - including hose.  The hose was not  connected to anything and just hung free.  Looked really cool at the  airshows.  I took a lot of very unsavory ribbing from those who shall be  unnamed.  Rich Williams, NASA's #2 doctor, was a little concerned for  me because he theorized I would be re-breathing my own air since the hose might  not allow a total clean air exchange because of its length.  But I could  fly with the canopy open and with the mike in the mask, there was no air noise  when I transmitted.  Occasionally I would take the free end of the hose and  stick it in the airstream.  The effect was like pressure breathing!   Air was literally shoved into my lungs!  I could not do it for very  long.  It was surprising how much air would come up that little 3/4  hose.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

 [quote]   They may be available from Termikas in Lithuania or via Rob Kent in the    UK.  I do not know of any pattern available.

   Dennis

    

   [quote]     ---

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