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Cold Air Induction

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Jon Reining

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Bless me father for I have forgotten, it's been six months since I've been to Oshkosh...



With all this discussion on engine mounts, cold air incudtion and cowls (and since it has been awhile since I learned why at Oshkosh) - what does cold air induction do for you?  More horsepower?  Less weight?  Basically, how does it work and why is it good?  



If you get a Barrett Engine with Cold Air Induction, will it fit in a Holy Cowl?  



If you do one or the other, or both, what is the net impact on horsepower and speed?  



Jon Reining

40514 - tailcone

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Yes, yes, and yes.    The cold air induction basically removes the

intake tubes from the oil sump (stock configuration) which heat soaks

the incoming air.  Hot air is less dense which means less HP.  Barrett's

sump is also magnesium which is lighter than the stock sump.  As for the

holy cowl, you need to go with the James cowl anyway which is made for

the cold air unless you want to do a bunch of work on the stock cowl ala

Gary Specketer.  Figure on the credit for the stock cowl being around

$800 by the time you subtract the various parts.



  Net impact, unknown at this time.  The first couple of this

combination are still coming out of the gate.  I believe the cowl on

something like an RV-4 gains you about 10 mph and the cold air induction

is good for around 10 ponies.



Michael



--

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Standard Lycoming induction has the induction air routed through the oil 

sump, the result is that the air intake to the cylinders is heated by 

the surrounding oil in the sump. Cold Air Induction takes ram air and 

routes it directly to each cylinders intake bypassing the oil sump. this 

requires a custom oil sump and hence the recent discussion. If you 

remember your pilot training, Cold air is more dense and produces a 

stronger air charge going into the cylinder, which results in more 

manifold pressure and more power (OOPS there I go again hot rodding!). 

Its kind of like putting a booster on your engine without adding any 

moving parts.  Free power (well almost free) !. The answer as to does it 

add horsepower depends on who's asking,  but I'm VERY happy with the 

results of my Dyno run ! 

Less weight : marginally but not enough to be concerned with.

Holy Cowl fit : Will James has made an RV-10 lower cowl that fits the 

BPE Cold air induction. He also has the Holy cowl for standard induction.

Net effect: Horsepower increases, Allen can tell you how much if you 

contact him. All things being equal speed should increase, but it takes 

a lot more ponies to equal 1 additional knot. (I'm not sure what the 

ratio is but it's definitely NOT 1:1. Since there are no RV-10's flying 

with cold air yet there are no performance numbers to report only 

'hopes'. Perhaps later this year.



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



Jon Reining wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bless me father for I have forgotten, it's been six months since I've been to Oshkosh...



With all this discussion on engine mounts, cold air incudtion and cowls (and since it has been awhile since I learned why at Oshkosh) - what does cold air induction do for you?  More horsepower?  Less weight?  Basically, how does it work and why is it good?  



If you get a Barrett Engine with Cold Air Induction, will it fit in a Holy Cowl?  



If you do one or the other, or both, what is the net impact on horsepower and speed?  



Jon Reining

40514 - tailcone





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=89901#89901

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:00 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Hello, We are nor anywhere near the engine stage yet, but my wife and I would like to know if Vans will give you credit on their cowl, if one decides to get a Holy Cowl. Also, how do you get in touch with Will James. Thank you.

 Brian and Ruth Preston

 #40666

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> 



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis 

 

 Standard Lycoming induction has the induction air routed through the oil 

 sump, the result is that the air intake to the cylinders is heated by 

 the surrounding oil in the sump. Cold Air Induction takes ram air and 

 routes it directly to each cylinders intake bypassing the oil sump. this 

 requires a custom oil sump and hence the recent discussion. If you 

 remember your pilot training, Cold air is more dense and produces a 

 stronger air charge going into the cylinder, which results in more 

 manifold pressure and more power (OOPS there I go again hot rodding!). 

 Its kind of like putting a booster on your engine without adding any 

&gt  ; movi ng parts. Free power (well almost free) !. The answer as to does it 
	


[quote] add horsepower depends on who's asking, but I'm VERY happy with the 

 results of my Dyno run !  

 Less weight : marginally but not enough to be concerned with. 

 Holy Cowl fit : Will James has made an RV-10 lower cowl that fits the 

 BPE Cold air induction. He also has the Holy cowl for standard induction. 

 Net effect: Horsepower increases, Allen can tell you how much if you 

 contact him. All things being equal speed should increase, but it takes 

 a lot more ponies to equal 1 additional knot. (I'm not sure what the 

 ratio is but it's definitely NOT 1:1. Since there are no RV-10's flying 

 with cold air yet there are no performance numbers to report only 

 'hopes'. Perhaps later this year. 

 

 Deems Davis # 406 

 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) 

 http://deemsrv10.com/ 

 

 Jon Reining wro  te: [b]> 

 >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" 

 

 > 

 >Bless me father for I have forgotten, it's been six months since I've been to 

 Oshkosh... 

 > 

 >With all this discussion on engine mounts, cold air incudtion and cowls (and 

 since it has been awhile since I learned why at Oshkosh) - what does cold air 

 induction do for you? More horsepower? Less weight? Basically, how does it 

 work and why is it good? 

 > 

 >If you get a Barrett Engine with Cold Air Induction, will it fit in a Holy 

 Cowl? 

 > 

 >If you do one or the other, or both, what is the net impact on horsepower and 

 speed? 

 > 

 >Jon Reining 

 >40514 - tailcone 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 >Read this topic online here: 

 > 

 >http://for  ums.ma  >>  

 

 [b]

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Yes, Van's will give you a credit.



Try this: http://www.jamesaircraft.com/



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/



cloudvalley(at)comcast.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hello, We are nor anywhere near the engine stage yet, but my wife and 

 I would like to know if Vans will give you credit on their cowl, if 

 one decides to get a Holy Cowl. Also, how do you get in touch with 

 Will James. Thank you.

 Brian and Ruth Preston

 #40666

  



     -



**

**

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Yes, they will credit you for anything you want to delete from the kits including the cowl.  They do tell you if you order the cowl after the fact expect the price to be a great deal higher.  Makes sense as it keeps them from having to deal with people that change their minds after it shipped.  As I said earlier, it’s about an $800 difference.  

   

  You can get in touch with Will at www.jamesaircraft.com.   

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cloudvalley(at)comcast.net

 Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:00 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Cold Air Induction  

  

  

     

Hello, We are nor anywhere near the engine stage yet, but my wife and I would like to know if Vans will give you credit on their cowl, if one decides to get a Holy Cowl. Also, how do you get in touch with Will James. Thank you.  

    

Brian and Ruth Preston  

    

#40666  

    

   

   	  Quote: 	
		    

-------------- Original message -------------- 

 From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis(at)cox.net> 

 

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis 

 > 

 > Standard Lycoming induction has the induction air routed through the oil 

 > sump, the result is that the air intake to the cylinders is heated by 

 > the surrounding oil in the sump. Cold Air Induction takes ram air and 

 > routes it directly to each cylinders intake bypassing the oil sump. this 

 > requires a custom oil sump and hence the recent discussion. If you 

 > remember your pilot training, Cold air is more dense and produces a 

 > stronger air charge going into the cylinder, which results in more 

 > manifold pressure and more power (OOPS there I go again hot rodding!). 

 > Its kind of like putting a booster on your engine without adding any 

 > ; movi ng parts. Free power (well almost free) !. The answer as to does it 

 > add horsepower depends on who's asking, but I'm VERY happy with the 

 > results of my Dyno run !  

 > Less weight : marginally but not enough to be concerned with. 

 > Holy Cowl fit : Will James has made an RV-10 lower cowl that fits the 

 > BPE Cold air induction. He also has the Holy cowl for standard induction. 

 > Net effect: Horsepower increases, Allen can tell you how much if you 

 > contact him. All things being equal speed should increase, but it takes 

 > a lot more ponies to equal 1 additional knot. (I'm not sure what the 

 > ratio is but it's definitely NOT 1:1. Since there are no RV-10's flying 

 > with cold air yet there are no performance numbers to report only 

 > 'hopes'. Perhaps later this year. 

 > 

 > Deems Davis # 406 

 > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) 

 > http://deemsrv10.com/ 

 > 

 > Jon Reining wro te: > 

 > >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" 

 > 

 > > 

 > >Bless me father for I have forgotten, it's been six months since I've been to 

 > Oshkosh... 

 > > 

 > >With all this discussion on engine mounts, cold air incudtion and cowls (and 

 > since it has been awhile since I learned why at Oshkosh) - what does cold air 

 > induction do for you? More horsepower? Less weight? Basically, how does it 

 > work and why is it good? 

 > > 

 > >If you get a Barrett Engine with Cold Air Induction, will it fit in a Holy 

 > Cowl? 

 > > 

 > >If you do one or the other, or both, what is the net impact on horsepower and 

 > speed? 

 > > 

 > >Jon Reining 

 > >40514 - tailcone 

 > > 

 > > 

 > > 

 > > 

 > >Read this topic online here: 

 > > 

 > >http://for ums.ma >> 

 > 

 >     http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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      [quote][b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Mike do you want to amend the below answer regarding Oregon Aero seats?  

     

John Cox 

 #40600   

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:21 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Cold Air Induction  

  

   

  Yes, they will credit you for anything you want to delete from the kits including the cowl.  They do tell you if you order the cowl after the fact expect the price to be a great deal higher.  Makes sense as it keeps them from having to deal with people that change their minds after it shipped.  As I said earlier, it’s about an $800 difference.  

   

  You can get in touch with Will at www.jamesaircraft.com.   

   

Michael  

   

      [quote][b]

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:47 am Post subject: Cold Air Induction

Good point.   I’m guessing that would also apply to things like spars.  J  

   

Michael  

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox

 Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:21 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Cold Air Induction  

  

  

   

Mike do you want to amend the below answer regarding Oregon Aero seats?  

     

John Cox 

 #40600   

          

  

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:21 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Cold Air Induction  

  

   

  Yes, they will credit you for anything you want to delete from the kits including the cowl.  They do tell you if you order the cowl after the fact expect the price to be a great deal higher.  Makes sense as it keeps them from having to deal with people that change their minds after it shipped.  As I said earlier, it’s about an $800 difference.  

   

  You can get in touch with Will at www.jamesaircraft.com.   

   

Michael  

    	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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4

      [quote][b]

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:12 am Post subject: Cold Air Induction

I think John is right that they may not want to eliminate the

seats for you.  That said, those seats are surprisingly

extremely comfortable and far nicer than I would have imagined

when you're on long trips.  My story is that I flew all the

way to Oregon and borrowed a fellow -10'ers fully decked

leather suburban for some sightseeing.  The seats in the

-10 were way more comfortable after a few hours than the

nice seats in that truck.  They're more comfortable than

my couch or recliner or office chair too.  Having spent

192+ hours in them, I'm certainly glad I didn't try to

buck that price and do something different.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John W. Cox wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Mike do you want to amend the below answer regarding Oregon Aero seats?

 

  

 

 */John Cox/*

 */#40600/*

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder 

 (Michael Sausen)

 *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 7:21 PM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* RE: Cold Air Induction

 

  

 

   Yes, they will credit you for anything you want to delete from the 

 kits including the cowl.  They do tell you if you order the cowl after 

 the fact expect the price to be a great deal higher.  Makes sense as it 

 keeps them from having to deal with people that change their minds after 

 it shipped.  As I said earlier, it’s about an $800 difference.

 

  

 

   You can get in touch with Will at www.jamesaircraft.com 

 <http://www.jamesaircraft.com>.

 

  

 

 Michael

 

  

 

 *

 

 

 *

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

As an adjunct to the comments about Cirrus as an alternative to a

$250,000 Van improved kit.  You will find from most Cirrus pilots that

their seats are not as comfortable as VANS.  With the handle

modification, I think it is a safe and reasonable feature.



The seat war was a long time ago from a distant galaxy.



John Cox

--

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: Cold Air Induction

John W. Cox wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   The seat war was a long time ago from a distant galaxy.


	


	*waves hand slowly*  These ARE the seats you are looking for...



-Dj



do not archive

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: Cold Air Induction

*waves hand slowly* You don't want those aftermarket parts.



ROFLMAO



Do not archive



--

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