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Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

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finesse152(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:43 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep it on  centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:40 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

Hi Jennifer,



 I wish there were an easy answer to your question.  Unfortunately, all planes are different, and it is unlikely to find two different models that are really similar to fly.



 I have not flown a Katana, but I have flown planes with free castering nose wheels.  I find them very difficult to taxi and particularly difficult to take off.  Add a cross wind which is trying to push your nose in the same direction as the engine torque and you have a real handful.  In that respect the XL should be much nicer to handle and should be similar to the 150 since they both have nose wheel steering.



 I don't have my XL flying yet, but I suspect there is a significant difference in the behavior of XLs depending on which engine you have.  Also, like the 150, the climb rate will change significantly depending on how many people are in the plane.  Even so, an XL with a Jabiru 3300 will climb perhaps twice the rate of a 150.  It has perhaps 30% more horsepower and 300 pounds less gross weight.



  From the standpoint of pilot training, I think all "Light" single engine planes are roughly similar to fly.  When you move up to "High Performance" singles like the C-182 or Bonanza the pilot experience is quite different.  The extra weight of these planes mean you must think of what you want the plane to be doing about 30 seconds in advance of the time you actually get what you want.  Light singles respond immediately to changes in power and pitch.



 I wish we could all go out and rent XLs or 701s to prepare for flying the planes we are building.  Alas, this isn't so easy to do.  As far as I know there may be 3 XLs in the USA available for training and no 701s.  This means you will be stuck flying whatever you can rent until your own plane is finished.  Indeed,  I think the more different models you fly the more you will appreciate your XL.  Perhaps the 172 is reasonably close in general behavior to the XL, but if you load up the 172 it will be a lot more sluggish than your plane.



 I wish you luck.



 Paul

 XL fuselage



 

 At 02:41 AM 1/28/2007, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?



 	
 

 -    [quote][b]

barcusc(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:09 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

I learned to fly in a Grumman which has a free  castoring nose wheel, I admit it bothered me for the first few  flights. However, after a few flights it becomes second  nature to drag a little brake to keep it straight until the  rudder becomes effective, I actually wish the XL was free castoring. On the  subject of handling, I am sure you will find the XL very easy to fly and that is  from a low-time pilot. The last time I flew as pilot in command was a  little more than 20 years ago and I became comfortable with the  XL very quickly, even with my lack of experience. I am sure you will  get a response from highly experienced pilots soon, I just thought you might  also want the opinion from someone that was concerned about the same  issues. 

  

 Clyde Barcus

 601 XL 

 [quote]   ---

gboothe5(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:23 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

There are two 601’s on the west coast you can rent. If you’re already flying a 152 I would be surprised if you could not transition in less than an hour. Let me know if you are interested in contact info.  

     

Gary Boothe 

 Cool, CA 

 601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done, 

 Tail done, wings done, working on c-section       

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Moorhouse

 Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:42 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.  

  

     

I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and land. I couldn't keep it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only other rentals at this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport, but don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it good preparation for the Zodiac?  

  

        

  

[url=%0d%0a%3cpre%3e%3cb%3e%3cfont%20size=2%20color=][/url]  

        [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

Jennifer,

I assume you're building a tri-gear XL, so perhaps a better choice for 

equivalent handling would be a Piper Cherokee PA-28.

The Zenith nose gear setup is great, compared to differential steering 

with brakes.  I cannot see a comparison for you with the Katana as it's 

too slippery for its weight to offer the same feel in taxiing or 

flying.  You'll find the XL very positive on the ground and in the air 

with no surprises, save an very responsive elevator.  I rented a PA28 a 

few months before flying my 601HDS (shorter wing), but the XL I would 

suspect be closer to it than my HDS.  The transition was seamless 

because the 601 is lighter and is a slight bit quicker to respond.  Lots 

more fun than the Piper or Cessna!  I'd suggest you look a flying 601 

near you and get a right seat feel for what it's about.  I think you'll 

be pleasantly surprised.  Check out the frapper list to see who's near 

your area from the link below.



**http://www.frappr.com/zenith601**



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive

Jennifer Moorhouse wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft 

 world. I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am 

 building a 601XL, currently the tail pieces until funds are a bit more 

 free to dedicate to the rest of it. Until it's done, I want to prepare 

 by flying something more similar to it than the Cessna. I have started 

 transitioning to a Diamond Katana. I've flown one before, but it's 

 been a couple of years. I just went up again yesterday in the 

 composite beast. It was miserable to handle on the ground, pulling 

 hard to the right, taxiing like a drunk three legged mule. I wonder if 

 that's normal, because of the free castering nosewheel and the nice 

 crosswind, 10kts, or if it's just that particular airplane. Maybe 

 something is out of whack. There's not much rudder, and diff braking 

 has to be used a lot on the ground. How does the Zodie compare? Do any 

 of you also fly Katanas? The thing was squirrelly to take off and 

 land. I couldn't keep it on centerline to save my soul. I'll get it, 

 but I'll need to fly with the cfi again. The only other rentals at 

 this particular airport are 172s. I could go to another airport, but 

 don't know of anything more similar to the Zodiac that's available for 

 training or rental. I've been happy putting about in the 152. I was 

 wondering, long term am I going to be happy in a lighter weight 

 airplane? The Katana is heavier than the 152 and the Zodiac is 

 lighter. I was wondering if I can get happy with the Katana, is it 

 good preparation for the Zodiac?

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

Jennifer-

     I've been told by CFIs who do a  lot of "Test piloting" for homebuilts that the closest certificated match to a  601 is a 108hp Grumman 2 place trainer. I think it's an AA-2, but don't  quote me on that- you can find out easy enough on-line.

 Bill Naumuk

HDS Fuselage

Townville, Pa

 [quote]   ---

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

Jennifer,



     Tell us where you are located.  There might be a

Zodiac close enough to fly.



R/



Brandon



 

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.

badbob

Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Willamina, Oregon

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

I was lucky enough to fly a 601XL a couple of weeks  back. The aircraft belongs to Pete Andersen  and in located at Hillsboro,  Oregon. The workmanship on the airplane is great and everything looked straight.  Roll control is stiff (but not excessive) and pitch is sensitive. I own a  Cassutt racer that is not as pitch sensitive as the XL ( however roll  is EXTREMELY quick!  ). Now a  friend owns a Lansair 235 that is  MUCH more pitch sensitive than the XL. I did not operate the XL in slow flight  mode but watching the control inputs while landing it appears to handle much  like a trainer. My only concern for a low time pilot would be overcontrolling  the aircraft in the pitch axes. As long as you could keep a relaxed hand on the  stick that wouldn't be a problem. Having said this the XL trims out nicely for  hands off stable flight!

 I hope this helps!

 Bob Johnson in Oregon

   [quote][b]

_________________
Bob Johnson
601XL scratch built.
badbob0007(at)earthlink.net

demeo(at)sonic.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:51 am Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

I fly a Piper Cherokee 140 rental.  I find the characteristics are 

closer to the Zodiac XL than the 152.   I am lucky enough to be near a 

Zodiac at a local training school.  I go up in it as much as possible.  

If you can find one within reach, go spend some time in it.  It's a 

real pleasure to fly!!!



Brad DeMeo

Zodiac XL 80% done.

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:49 pm Post subject: Choice of planes to fly to prepare for Zodiac.

Before flying my Zodiac about 99% of my flight time was in single engine 

Cessnas, mostly 150/152s and 172s with some time in Cardinals and 

Cutlasses and only a few hours in a low wing Beech 19. I did take a ride 

in a 601HD a couple years before mine was complete and flew the approach 

to landing. I had no problem flying the plane even though I was in the 

right seat. The only issue was that the touchdown was a bit firmer than 

I like, the Zodiacs do develop a pretty good sink rate when you pull the 

power. Before test flying my Zodiac, I put several hours of flight time 

in Cessna 152s and 172s. The transition to the Zodiac was not hard at all.



If you can fly a Cessna 152 or 172 well and make good landings you 

probably won't have any trouble with the 601XL. I've found that the 

approach and landing speeds are nearly identical to the Cessnas. The 

main differences I've noticed are that my zodiac doesn't have much 

tendency to float if the landing speed is a bit high and it won't bounce 

if the touchdown is a bit too firm. On my Zodiac, once the mains touch 

the ground, the nose wheel comes down and the plane is done flying. It 

won't skip down the runway on the mains like a Cessna when you touchdown 

a little fast. I've noticed that the more recent kits have the main gear 

spring reversed from the earlier kits, putting the mains a few inches 

farther forward. This will change the touchdown behavior some, making it 

easier to ease the nose wheel down gently. On mine you have to be ready 

to pull back on the stick at touchdown to avoid dropping the nose wheel 

abruptly.



Jennifer Moorhouse wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I usually fly a Cessna 152, the old shetland pony of the aircraft world. 

 I haven't even been up in a Zenith anything yet, but am building a 

 601XL, 


	




-- 

Bryan Martin

Zenith 601XL N61BM

Ram Subaru, Stratus redrive

Do Not Archive

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

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