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roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
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 Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:39 pm Post subject: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on the GEO conv |
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Earl Mine is not Geo, but I had the same symptom and found my tach was off
by a mile. Try a photo tach from an rc hobby shop to make sure you are not
attempting 7000 rpms. After pitching my prop the other way it does fine.
Yes the Geo does stay cool on other planes. Ron NB Ore
| Quote: | From: "Earl White" <earlwhite4(at)verizon.net>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on the
GEO conversion.
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:48:32 -0800
Please excuse this newbie. Not really sure how the forum is going to work,
but I will keep trying untill I get it right.
OK, I have my private license, but I HATE the small cessnas that I had to
train in because you can't see out of them well enough Almost got killed
in a midair situation. The other plane never saw me either, and we missed
at a 90 degree angle by about 3 or four feet. No time to react.
Anyway, I have a friend who has no access to this fine site, No email.
Lives in rural Kansas, and the IP is not into good service, so he does
without. We communicate from his work email and by phone. The friend's name
is Bruce Bennett and he has two Kitfoxes.
The first one is a GEO metro conversion that he bought from his father in
law about two years ago.
It will fly for a few minutes before it overheats and he has to land, so he
never leaves the pattern.
This is really a shame because it's a beautiful bird.
Starts easy, runs strong untill it overheats and he has to set it down.
Bruce is a good pilot and also has his private pilot's license.
The Geo is a 1000 cc three cylinder with a Raven re-drive and a three
bladed prop. I believe that he can achieve 5200 engine rpms on the ground
without a problem.
Radiator- Bruce's kitfox kit had a radiator for a Rotax installation in the
items included with the plane, but his father in law opted for the GEO for
the reason of cost and availabillity. Bruce's father in law lost his
medical, and could no longer fly, so Bruce bought the project and has been
trying to fly off the neccessary hours to get the plane ready for it's
homebuilt inspection and certification papers. the radiator from the Rotax
912 was plumbed into the system and was mounted across the fuselage under
the belly of the bird right in the airstream. there was no shroud or
cowling. It didn't provide enough cooling, and the temp would reach 220 in
about two minutes flying time. The engine would never over heat on the
ground which we thought was puzzling, but would wait untill you were on the
crosswind or downwind leg of the pattern and the rpm's would start to drop
off. We thought this to be rather a downing gripe, so we tried several
other arrangements with larger radiators. One of these was about 2 ft
square, and also hung down below the fuselage directly in the airstream,
and it did provide more flying time, but at the expense of a huge amount of
drag, whichalso limited the airspeed to about 55 or 60. With this
confiuration on a cool day, the plane did not overheat, but was definitely
nose heavy, and the large area of the radiator was too much drag for the
machine to call it anything but an experiment. We knew this, of course, but
it was a way to help troubleshoot the overheating problem that was not too
complicated or hard to understand. BUT there has been no real improvement
in this situation for about a year, and Bruce has put the Kitfox asside for
a more flyable aircraft which is an Ercoupe. There is no overheating
problem with it, , and it is more of a dependable ride by far.
So what I need from this group if anyone has the time or can steer me in
the right direction a source of Kitfox owners that are still running the
non-turbo GEO conversions with the Raven RE-drive who are NOT overheating
and who are willing to share their experiences and know how. Maybe some
pics. I will get a list of questions together for Bruce to answer, and be
the Laision officer, but I'm sure that Bruce would answer any and all who
might be willing to help in any way.
Anyone can send me email off the forum and I will be more than glad to
forward it to Bruce and get this Kitfox fixed once and for all.
Thanks and hello from North Idaho!
Earl White
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roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on the GEO conv |
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Bradley Please give us some performance numbers. Empty weight, rate of
climb, top speed etc. Ron NB Ore
| Quote: | From: "Bradley M Webb" <bmwebb(at)cox.net>
Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To: <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on
the GEO conversion.
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 20:53:55 -0500
Earl,
I am flying a Geo 1.0L G10 on my Kitfox 2. I have an aftermarket radiator
inside the stock KF cowl, and I'm using the Raven system as well. So far,
it
is a real gem. It is heavier than a 582, but much more reliable and is
better economically.
Right now, I am running at 208F water temp, and am slowly working to get it
lower. 220F is not too hot, IF you adhere to certain axioms. The G13 has
been proven to fly at 230F for short periods, with no issues. Remember,
this
is not a Rotax. It can take the heat without killing you. But it's not good
in the long term.
I suggest you subscribe to the Yahoo FlyGeo newsgroups. There are two of
them. We just discussed this very issue at length, so a short search will
yield many answers. For example, the water pump may be cavitating at high
RPM, the intake hose may be crushing, or the thermostat may be causing the
radiator cap to burp fluid. Only assumptions, but these are the things I
learned on the group to watch for - all of which are very fixable, once you
find out if the problem exists.
We have quite a few very knowledgeable people there, who now much about
these engines. Also, Raven monitors the group, and pipes up when needed.
Also, if you have the Raven drive, contact Jeron there. He is very helpful,
and can point you in the right direction. If you email me directly, I would
be glad to help in any way I can. I am very happy with my conversion.
Bradley
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Earl White
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 9:49 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on the
GEO
conversion.
Please excuse this newbie. Not really sure how the forum is going to work,
but I will keep trying untill I get it right.
OK, I have my private license, but I HATE the small cessnas that I had to
train in because you can't see out of them well enough Almost got killed
in
a midair situation. The other plane never saw me either, and we missed at a
90 degree angle by about 3 or four feet. No time to react.
Anyway, I have a friend who has no access to this fine site, No email.
Lives in rural Kansas, and the IP is not into good service, so he does
without. We communicate from his work email and by phone. The friend's name
is Bruce Bennett and he has two Kitfoxes.
The first one is a GEO metro conversion that he bought from his father in
law about two years ago.
It will fly for a few minutes before it overheats and he has to land, so he
never leaves the pattern.
This is really a shame because it's a beautiful bird.
Starts easy, runs strong untill it overheats and he has to set it down.
Bruce is a good pilot and also has his private pilot's license.
The Geo is a 1000 cc three cylinder with a Raven re-drive and a three
bladed
prop. I believe that he can achieve 5200 engine rpms on the ground without
a
problem.
Radiator- Bruce's kitfox kit had a radiator for a Rotax installation in the
items included with the plane, but his father in law opted for the GEO for
the reason of cost and availabillity. Bruce's father in law lost his
medical, and could no longer fly, so Bruce bought the project and has been
trying to fly off the neccessary hours to get the plane ready for it's
homebuilt inspection and certification papers. the radiator from the Rotax
912 was plumbed into the system and was mounted across the fuselage under
the belly of the bird right in the airstream. there was no shroud or
cowling. It didn't provide enough cooling, and the temp would reach 220 in
about two minutes flying time. The engine would never over heat on the
ground which we thought was puzzling, but would wait untill you were on the
crosswind or downwind leg of the pattern and the rpm's would start to drop
off. We thought this to be rather a downing gripe, so we tried several
other
arrangements with larger radiators. One of these was about 2 ft square, and
also hung down below the fuselage directly in the airstream, and it did
provide more flying time, but at the expense of a huge amount of drag,
whichalso limited the airspeed to about 55 or 60. With this confiuration on
a cool day, the plane did not overheat, but was definitely nose heavy, and
the large area of the radiator was too much drag for the machine to call it
anything but an experiment. We knew this, of course, but it was a way to
help troubleshoot the overheating problem that was not too complicated or
hard to understand. BUT there has been no real improvement in this
situation for about a year, and Bruce has put the Kitfox asside for a more
flyable aircraft which is an Ercoupe. There is no overheating problem with
it, , and it is more of a dependable ride by far.
So what I need from this group if anyone has the time or can steer me in
the
right direction a source of Kitfox owners that are still running the
non-turbo GEO conversions with the Raven RE-drive who are NOT overheating
and who are willing to share their experiences and know how. Maybe some
pics. I will get a list of questions together for Bruce to answer, and be
the Laision officer, but I'm sure that Bruce would answer any and all who
might be willing to help in any way.
Anyone can send me email off the forum and I will be more than glad to
forward it to Bruce and get this Kitfox fixed once and for all.
Thanks and hello from North Idaho!
Earl White
|
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Beemer
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on the GEO conv |
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|
I'm not prepared to do that yet publicly. I don't have much time on it, and
I am still sorting out some detail items (cooling on hot days). Once I get
things adjusted to where I want them, then we'll talk numbers.
Suffice it to say I'm happy so far. Raven Design has good support, and the
installation is where I expected it to be.
Bradley
[quote]--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia |
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Michael Logan
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: To the Kitfox group - Info about the latest on the GEO conv |
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|
Earl,
I am a little concerned about the comment "fly off the necessary hours to
get the plane ready for it's homebuilt inspection and certification papers"
Does that mean that the airplane has not been inspected by the FAA or DAR
for its airworthiness certificate?
| Quote: | >Please excuse this newbie. Not really sure how the forum is going to work,
>but I will keep trying untill I get it right.
>
>OK, I have my private license, but I HATE the small cessnas that I had to
>train in because you can't see out of them well enough Almost got killed
>in
>a midair situation. The other plane never saw me either, and we missed at
a
>90 degree angle by about 3 or four feet. No time to react.
>
>Anyway, I have a friend who has no access to this fine site, No email.
>Lives in rural Kansas, and the IP is not into good service, so he does
>without. We communicate from his work email and by phone. The friend's
name
>is Bruce Bennett and he has two Kitfoxes.
>
>The first one is a GEO metro conversion that he bought from his father in
>law about two years ago.
>
>It will fly for a few minutes before it overheats and he has to land, so
he
>never leaves the pattern.
>
>This is really a shame because it's a beautiful bird.
>
>Starts easy, runs strong untill it overheats and he has to set it down.
>Bruce is a good pilot and also has his private pilot's license.
>
>The Geo is a 1000 cc three cylinder with a Raven re-drive and a three
>bladed
>prop. I believe that he can achieve 5200 engine rpms on the ground without
>a
>problem.
>
>Radiator- Bruce's kitfox kit had a radiator for a Rotax installation in
the
>items included with the plane, but his father in law opted for the GEO for
>the reason of cost and availabillity. Bruce's father in law lost his
>medical, and could no longer fly, so Bruce bought the project and has been
>trying to fly off the neccessary hours to get the plane ready for it's
>homebuilt inspection and certification papers. the radiator from the Rotax
>912 was plumbed into the system and was mounted across the fuselage under
>the belly of the bird right in the airstream. there was no shroud or
>cowling. It didn't provide enough cooling, and the temp would reach 220
in
>about two minutes flying time. The engine would never over heat on the
>ground which we thought was puzzling, but would wait untill you were on
the
>crosswind or downwind leg of the pattern and the rpm's would start to drop
>off. We thought this to be rather a downing gripe, so we tried several
>other
>arrangements with larger radiators. One of these was about 2 ft square,
and
>also hung down below the fuselage directly in the airstream, and it did
>provide more flying time, but at the expense of a huge amount of drag,
>whichalso limited the airspeed to about 55 or 60. With this confiuration
on
>a cool day, the plane did not overheat, but was definitely nose heavy, and
>the large area of the radiator was too much drag for the machine to call
it
>anything but an experiment. We knew this, of course, but it was a way to
>help troubleshoot the overheating problem that was not too complicated or
>hard to understand. BUT there has been no real improvement in this
>situation for about a year, and Bruce has put the Kitfox asside for a more
>flyable aircraft which is an Ercoupe. There is no overheating problem with
>it, , and it is more of a dependable ride by far.
>
>So what I need from this group if anyone has the time or can steer me in
>the
>right direction a source of Kitfox owners that are still running the
>non-turbo GEO conversions with the Raven RE-drive who are NOT overheating
>and who are willing to share their experiences and know how. Maybe some
>pics. I will get a list of questions together for Bruce to answer, and be
>the Laision officer, but I'm sure that Bruce would answer any and all who
>might be willing to help in any way.
>
>Anyone can send me email off the forum and I will be more than glad to
>forward it to Bruce and get this Kitfox fixed once and for all.
>
>Thanks and hello from North Idaho!
>
>Earl White
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Want a degree but can't afford to quit? Top school degrees online - in as
fast as 1 year
http://forms.nextag.com/goto.jsp?url=/serv/main/buyer/education.jsp?doSearc
h=n&tm=y&search=education_text_links_88_h288c&s=4079&p=5116
|
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_________________
Mike Logan
Fredericksburg, VA |
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