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jedwards(at)digital.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: Newbie Questions

I just joined this group in search of answers to a couple of questions on

the 601 XL.  My apologies if these are answered somewhere on the

zenithair.com website, but I was unable to find them, and my questions

submitted to the website went unanswered.  (I guess they are busy).



I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how things go

before purchasing a Quick Build kit.  (First time builder).  Is there any

difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail kit?  I

assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I finally

order.  Is that true?



My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine choices.

I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version of the

Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain about the

Jabiru 3300.   Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR?  Any concerns or

other suggestions?



Thanks,



John Edwards

Tool gathering

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: Newbie Questions

The quick build kit comes with the tail already riveted together.  

http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html



The standard tail kit now comes with horizontal tail skins pre- 

drilled. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html



There is also the starter kit, which includes just the rudder. I  

assume this is much like it's always been, where you have to drill  

and deburr all the holes yourself and trim the skins to fit. This kit  

is designed to introduce the builder to the skills needed to build  

the rest of the airplane. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/rudder.html



You can buy the rudder kit or attend the rudder workshop to see if  

you really want to build the rest of the plane. Then if you decide to  

continue, you can order the quick build kit and Zenith can send it  

minus the rudder and deduct the cost of the rudder so you can install  

your already completed rudder.



The nice thing about Zenith is you can scratch build the whole plane  

from plans or scratch build part of it and order any parts you would  

rather not scratch build or build from component kits or any  

combination of these.



As far as night and IFR are concerned, if you are planning on  

registering it as an amature built, the engine chioce makes no  

difference at all as far as the FAA is concerned. You just have to  

have the necessary instruments and equipment onboard to comply with  

the night or IFR regulations. I believe this also applies to E-LSA.  

The engine choice only matters for S-LSA.

On Feb 25, 2007, at 8:49 AM, John C. Edwards wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how  

 things go

 before purchasing a Quick Build kit.  (First time builder).  Is  

 there any

 difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail  

 kit?  I

 assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I  

 finally

 order.  Is that true?



 My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine  

 choices.

 I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version  

 of the

 Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain  

 about the

 Jabiru 3300.   Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR?  Any  

 concerns or

 other suggestions?


	


-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

jedwards(at)digital.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: Newbie Questions

 	  Quote: 	
		   As far as night and IFR are concerned, if you are planning on  

 registering it as an amature built, the engine chioce makes no  

 difference at all as far as the FAA is concerned. You just have to  

 have the necessary instruments and equipment onboard to comply with  

 the night or IFR regulations. I believe this also applies to E-LSA.  

 The engine choice only matters for S-LSA.


	




Thanks Bryan,



As I understand it now, the engine manufacturing operating instructions on

limiting the use to VFR only (e.g. Rotax 912UL) applies to S-LSA and not

E-LSA.  Great!  The more I learn about experimental aircraft, the more I

like.



Thanks for the information on the tail kit also.  I just completed the EAA

Sports Air workshop on sheet metal, so I was ready to go beyond the rudder

and onto the full tail assembly.  But considering it's already riveted on

the QBK, I might as well go for the QBK and be in the air that much sooner.



John Edwards

N5806L - KCOI

do not archive

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Questions

I took the EAA Sheet metal workshop and a rudder workshop at CanZac in neighboring Ontario.  I found the rudder workshop to be more helpful in understanding what I was getting into regarding building an XL, whereas the EAA class taught me some techniques (dimpling, flush riveting, etc.) that I have also found helpful.   One tool I added that is not on the ZAC list is a rivet squeezer with a mix of squeeze dies and dimplers.  One benefit of the rudder kit is you get exposed to reading and interpreting the plans and pictorial guide that ZAC uses for the building process.



Why don't you try the rudder kit or better yet, attend a class?  I think it would help and you would pick up some good info.  Also, visit www.ch601.org - there is good stuff there, especially how to cut aluminum with an Olfa knife  (thanks David & Mark!)



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: Newbie Questions

I just started putting together my slow-build rudder kit which I picked up 

at the factory in November 2006. The main spar and the trailing edge skin 

have prepunched pilot holes for all the rivets. The pilot holes and the 

holes in the ribs, doublers, and nose skin are drilled out and deburred 

before riveting. If you do not attend the rudder workshop, the MetalWorking 

101 DVD from HomebuiltHELP.com is an excellent resource to introduce 

novices to building. It is well worth the cost.

At 10:50 AM 2/25/2007 -0500, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

The quick build kit comes with the tail already riveted together.

http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-qbk.html

The standard tail kit now comes with horizontal tail skins pre- drilled. 

http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/xl-price.html

There is also the starter kit, which includes just the rudder. I

assume this is much like it's always been, where you have to drill

and deburr all the holes yourself and trim the skins to fit. This kit

is designed to introduce the builder to the skills needed to build

the rest of the airplane. http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/rudder.html

You can buy the rudder kit or attend the rudder workshop to see if

you really want to build the rest of the plane. Then if you decide to

continue, you can order the quick build kit and Zenith can send it

minus the rudder and deduct the cost of the rudder so you can install

your already completed rudder.

The nice thing about Zenith is you can scratch build the whole plane

from plans or scratch build part of it and order any parts you would

rather not scratch build or build from component kits or any

combination of these.

As far as night and IFR are concerned, if you are planning on

registering it as an amature built, the engine chioce makes no

difference at all as far as the FAA is concerned. You just have to

have the necessary instruments and equipment onboard to comply with

the night or IFR regulations. I believe this also applies to E-LSA.

The engine choice only matters for S-LSA.

On Feb 25, 2007, at 8:49 AM, John C. Edwards wrote:

>I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how

>things go

>before purchasing a Quick Build kit.  (First time builder).  Is

>there any

>difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail

>kit?  I

>assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I

>finally

>order.  Is that true?

>

>My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine

>choices.

>I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version

>of the

>Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain

>about the

>Jabiru 3300.   Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR?  Any

>concerns or

>other suggestions?

--

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

Terry Phillips

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

Just starting a 601 kit

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:52 am Post subject: Newbie Questions

RE: My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine

choices. I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version

of the Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain

about the Jabiru 3300.   Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR?  Any

concerns orother suggestions?



Pete answered this way previously:



"This email below is factually incorrect regarding flying Jabiru engines at

night.  The only application of JAR22H engine certification in the USA is

for Primary Category Aircraft under 750 kg.  Primary category aircraft under

750 kg can use a JAR22H engine if limited to day VFR.



JAR22H does not come into play in the LSA area.  Engines are compliant to

ASTM F2339.



Jabiru engines used in experimental amateur built aircraft can be flown in

any condition that the aircraft operating limitations allow, night usually

being one of them.  Under a LSA certificate there is no prohibition on the

part of Jabiru against night operation.  There is no specific prohibition in

the FAR's prohibiting night flight in S-LSA aircraft.  The implied

restriction is in the certificate in that it is based on ASTM F2245-04.  It

is stated in the scope of that standard that it applies to LSA aircraft

operated day VFR.



To be clear - it is not the Jabiru engine that limits an aircraft to day

VFR.



Pete"



You can find this post and the thread leading up to it in the archives.

Jeff Davidson

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: Newbie Questions

In a message dated 2/25/2007 11:25:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jedwards(at)digital.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Thanks Bryan,



As I understand it now, the engine    manufacturing operating instructions on

limiting the use to VFR only (e.g.    Rotax 912UL) applies to S-LSA and not

E-LSA.  Great!  The more I    learn about experimental aircraft, the more  I

like.

	


 

 I just read an article in the Atlantic  Flyer that Rotax is removing the night restriction from their UL/ Uls  version of their uncertified engines and just calling it VFR. Feb 07 issue page  31.

  

 Bob  Spudis



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's fr41x4298082137/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com" href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.  [quote][b]

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Newbie Questions

I don't know where you are located but I strongly suggest to just about everyone to go to the factory and build the rudder there. 



Yes the cost of the rudder is deducted from the kit.



Engine choice in the experimental is a non issue as far as regulations go.



 	  jedwards(at)digital.net wrote: 	
		  I just joined this group in search of answers to a couple of questions on

the 601 XL.  My apologies if these are answered somewhere on the

zenithair.com website, but I was unable to find them, and my questions

submitted to the website went unanswered.  (I guess they are busy).



I am considering purchasing the tail kit first, and then see how things go

before purchasing a Quick Build kit.  (First time builder).  Is there any

difference between the Quick Build tail kit and the standard tail kit?  I

assume I can subtract the cost of the tail kit from the QB when I finally

order.  Is that true?



My second question is on Night/IFR and I was curious about engine choices.

I understand that Lycoming, Continental, and the certified version of the

Rotax is OK for building a 601XL IFR platform, but I was uncertain about the

Jabiru 3300.   Does the Jabiru qualify for night and IFR?  Any concerns or

other suggestions?



Thanks,



John Edwards

Tool gathering

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Newbie Questions

if you are experimental you can put a rubber band powered prop if you'd like and fly IFR, you don't need a certified engine.  3300s are certified in australia not in the U.S.  still a better engine than most certs out there in my eyes.

Remember you are (experimental catagory).

Juan



--

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Newbie Questions

Just out of curiosity  what is the official position on flying a Exp. Amateur Built vs Exp. Light sport into Canada from the US?   Do our northern cousins recognize the E-SLA Category?



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

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