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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: RPM drop |
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Group,
I have had a drop of about 300 -400 rpm static on my 447 with only 45 hours on it. what are the symptoms of stuck rings and can you tell if they are stuck by doing a compression test? I noticed I was not getting as many rpms on climb out but it still seemed to have plenty of power. Can the pitch increase on the Ivo prop by itself???? Suggestons?
Ed (In Houston FF 62)
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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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In a message dated 2/28/2007 6:49:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, frank-margie(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
| Quote: |
My 503 DCDI is real sensitive to plug gap------try resetting the plugs to .016. I use NGK BR8ES, and replace at 25 hours. I've also seen plugs that wouldn't fire as strong if they'd been wet, as in flooded engine or lots of preservative oil.
Frank Clyma
Orange Park, FL
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I went to the hangar today. I put seafoam into the back cylinder and let it soak while I replaced my strobe light. I then ran the 447 on the plugs that were in it already. My RPMs were at 6030 tied down. That was up from 5970. I put in new BR8ES plugs and fired her up.She went right on up to 6270 rpms. That is only 20 rpms less than what I got when I originaly set the IVO. Ran great on the way to another airstrip about 9 miles away. The old plugs were very clean looking with a hint of light brown grey on them, but the new plugs bumped the rpms up another 240 . You were right on! Thanks for your input!
Ed (ff 62 running strong for the moment)
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:27 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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Unless you are having static problems with your radio, lose the BR8ES plugs and go with B8ES instead. The extra resistance certainly does not not improve the spark, and unless you are having radio hash noise, you don't need the extra resistance.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
[quote] ---
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
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jimhefner
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 91
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:44 am Post subject: Re: RPM drop |
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If you want to loose plug problems altogether, put BR8EV or BR8EIX's in your 2 cycle Rotax that uses B8ES plugs.... the R doesn't matter with those plugs. I was changing B8ES's every 10 hrs when I first flew the Firefly in 2002. At that time there were only BR8EV (Palladium) plugs available from NGK. After installing them I changed plugs at 75 hrs as a preventative measure, even though it was still starting on the first or 2nd pull and running perfect and they looked great.... I'm sure I could have run them 100hrs with no problem. Now the Iridium plugs (IX) have pretty much replaced palladium and are as good or better but I sold my plane before getting much time on them. These plugs are more expensive ($7 or $8 apiece) than B8ES's, but there's a reason for that.... they perform much better and last way longer. I did the same thing on my motorcycle and am seeing the same results... much better cold weather starting too. The small electrode must have something to do with it.... more concentrated spark I suspect but I'm no expert on plugs, just know from experience that these work much better and last a lot longer than the B8ES's.
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Jim Hefner
Tucson, AZ
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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Regarding spark plugs for the 503 This is off the Aero Propulsions Web
site..
Spark Plugs:
The recommended spark plugs are the NGK B8ES or BR8ES.
The "R" denotes a resistance which helps suppress radio interference.
The use of spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip,
is mandatory. The latter can unscrew itself in flight and dislodge the
spark plug connector cap, creating an ignition failure.
Spark plug gap:
Allowable range: 0.4-0.5mm / .016-.020"•••• Optimal: 0.45mm / .018"
The gap can be reduced to its allowable minimum to help starting in
very cold conditions
Things to be avoided:
Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents Screwed-on
tips Unverified spark plug gaps
WHAT IS SEA FOAM?
SOUNDS LIKE AN OIL FOR USE ON MOTORS THAT HAVE BEEN SITTING FOR A
WHILE... YES / NO
Mark Vaughn
--
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:36 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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| WHAT IS SEA FOAM?
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| Mark Vaughn
Mark:
An aphrodisiac for two strokes.
Folks:
Please try to cut the previous msgs so we do not have to wade through
pages of stuff we have already read.
I think the instructions are in Matt Dralle's guide for Kolb List
Usage.
Thanks,
john h
mkIII
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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In a message dated 3/4/2007 9:16:58 A.M. Central Standard Time, knowvne(at)aol.com writes:
| Quote: |
WHAT IS SEA FOAM?
SOUNDS LIKE AN OIL FOR USE ON MOTORS THAT HAVE BEEN SITTING FOR A
WHILE... YES / NO
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YES Please no more questions about on seafoam on the list even though it is a little slow right now. It is supposed to be a carbon remover, There is a lot about it in the archives. Some swear by it, but the subject has been ridden pretty hard, and is a sore subject to some on the list . I dont want to be flamed for starting anything!
Ed Do Not Archive
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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Thanks Ed
No worries of being flamed from me... I'm absorbing as much as I can
from these topics..
BTW
Those who have a Thread issue also own a Delete Key... 
•• HEY HERE'S A THOUGHT••
If this lists purpose is to inform pilots then shouldn't it be used to
inform ALL PILOTS and
not just those who ALREADY know it all ???? ALL types are sitting
around this digital camp fire...
ED here's a cold one... Toss another log on the fire I'm truly
absorbing the warmth of the topics...
Thanks again
Ignorant to 2 strokes
Mark
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
WHAT IS SEA FOAM?
SOUNDS LIKE AN OIL FOR USE ON MOTORS THAT HAVE BEEN SITTING FOR A
WHILE... YES / NO
              YES   Please no more questions about on seafoam on
the list even though it is a little slow right now.
It is supposed to be a carbon remover, There is a lot about it in the
archives. Some swear by it, but the subject has been ridden pretty hard,
and is a sore subject to some on the list . I dont want to be flamedÂ
for starting anything!
Â
                  Ed  Â
________________________________________________________________________
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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| Quote: | The recommended spark plugs are.......
|
Recommended......
| Quote: | The use of spark plugs with a solid tip, rather than the screwed-on tip,
is mandatory.
|
Slightly deform the screw on cap in a vice and screw it on....it
won't come off.
| Quote: | Things to be avoided:
Other spark plug models and other manufacturers' equivalents Screwed-on
tips Unverified spark plug gaps
|
Don't see why.....heat range is the driver here, not mfg, model,
composition, etc. I've got over 300 hrs on a set of plugs (not the
mfg recommeded ones, either) that look like they're from a four
stroke.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:09 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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| Don't see why.....heat range is the driver here, not mfg, model,
| composition, etc. I've got over 300 hrs on a set of plugs (not the
| mfg recommeded ones, either) that look like they're from a four
| stroke.
|
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| Jim Baker
Jim B:
Just an added note.
Be careful switching brands of spark plugs with different brands of
spark plug wire caps. I ran into a problem with Bosch plugs many
years ago, when they first came out with a platinum tip plug. Great!
A plug that would be better than the BR8EV and for a fraction of the
cost. Plug worked great, but not with the NGK plug wire cap. Had to
get some Bosch plug wire caps that were molded to match the ribs on
the Bosch plugs. This kept the caps from wobbling around on the spark
plug.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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a58r(at)verizon.net
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:18 am Post subject: RPM Drop |
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Mark,
Just ck the archives for SeaFoam threads...there are a bunch. And ,
yes, it's alleged to be a high colonic for carbon-encrusted 2-strokes.
regards,
Bob N. FireFly 070 Old Kolb
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/
do not archive
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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Not a good idea at all. The problem is not making it stay on, the problem is
that you are using aluminum in a place that requires steel. The solid top
spark plugs have a steel top, while the screw on spark plug tops are
aluminum. The problem arises when the Rotax plug cap is snapped onto the
aluminum spark plug top. There is a hard steel spring wire in the Rotax plug
cap which holds it on and provides continuity. When it is snapped over the
aluminum plug top, the engine vibration causes it to quickly eat it's way
into the aluminum. Even though you deform the screw-on aluminum top, it is
still going to be chewed up/worn away in a way that the solid steel spark
plug top will not. You will end up with a Rotax plug cap full of aluminum
dust and a wobbly poor connection. Eventually you will have to buy a new
Rotax plug cap because the aluminum crud will ruin it.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
---
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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Thanks Bob...
Mark Vaughn
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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| Quote: | Be careful switching brands of spark plugs with different brands of
spark plug wire caps.
|
Ah, tis true. Too bad we just can't graft on a set of full length
silicone boots.....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
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Jim Baker
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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| Quote: | Please don't shoot the Messenger......
I was merely listing what I found on the Aero Propulsion website...
|
Didn't mean to slam a door on you, such was not my intent, tho it
sure sounded that way when I re-read my reply. My apologies.
Often, advice from such sites must be evaluated critically.
| Quote: | ignorant 2 2 strokes..... Mark
|
May I recommend....
http://kawtriple.com/mraxl/jennings.htm
Kinda hard to read since it's just page images but the info is all
there from one of the leading two-stroke practitioners.....
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
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frank-margie(at)worldnet.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: RPM Drop |
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REF:
I went to the hangar today. I put seafoam into the back cylinder
and let it soak while I replaced my strobe light. I then ran the 447 on the
plugs that were in it already. My RPMs were at 6030 tied down. That was up
from 5970. I put in new BR8ES plugs and fired her up.She went right on up to
6270 rpms. That is only 20 rpms less than what I got when I originaly set the
IVO. Ran great on the way to another airstrip about 9 miles away. The old
plugs were very clean looking with a hint of light brown grey on them, but the
new plugs bumped the rpms up another 240 . You were right on! Thanks for
your input!
-----------------------------------------------
Ed,
Sometimes it is simple, glad it worked. I've got to try Richard Pike's non-resistor plug idea too, would be great if it would work for me. (I may experiment with his safety wire clamps again also, maybe my tubing was old or below par. Richard's web site is full of good info!)
Frank
do not archive
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knowvne(at)aol.com
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