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ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: Crash Photos

I still lean towards the got it off the ground, panicked and shoved the stick forward and went in nose down.  The Impact was pretty substantial judging by the damage shown.  Actual some of the damage was result of the rescue effort getting the guy out.  Too bad.  Hope the guy recovers OK.

 jerb



 



 At 08:06 PM 10/18/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]I'm not an accident investigator, but you guys got me interested. The trouble I have with the dive it into the dirt theory is I don't think it's possible to dive the airplane into the ground from a survivable altitude in such a way as to not tear up the main gear. My guess, and that is exactly what it is, is that he got the tail up and either in a panic or accidentally or through some kind of brake lock up (it appears to have 5" Azusa drum brakes) he locked up the brakes and just went right over on his snout. 

 Look at the struts, the channel carry through and the landing gear. The gear is almost pristine and the struts don't appear to be bent forward very much. The position of the engine wreckage is more like it was wiped off the aircraft and exited out of the debris field to the right side rather than simply crumpling inward.

 Anyway, it makes for some head churning and gives me a bit more appreciation for the guys who really do crash investigation.

 Hope the pilot recovers fully.



 Rick Girard

 do not archive



 On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 8:55 PM, George Myers <gmyers(at)grandecom.net (gmyers(at)grandecom.net)> wrote:

   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "George Myers" <gmyers(at)grandecom.net (gmyers(at)grandecom.net)>

 

  Maybe he did a 'Crow Flop'.

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: Crash Photos

Jerb,



Just a reminder. An airplane can be made to nose over more abruptly with the stick fully back than it can with the stick fully forward.

Native human instinct is to pull back on the stick to arrest the rapid descent. toward the tarmac.

Gene

 On Oct 20, 2009, at 11:51 AM, jerb wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   I still lean towards the got it off the ground, panicked and shoved the stick forward and went in nose down.  The Impact was pretty substantial judging by the damage shown.  Actual some of the damage was result of the rescue effort getting the guy out.  Too bad.  Hope the guy recovers OK.

 jerb



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 



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 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:43 pm Post subject: Crash Photos

At 05:17 AM 10/19/2009, pj.ladd wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Did no investigaton take place?. Here there would be a CAA report somewhere and probably available on line. 	


 If it's an ultralight and there are no injuries to anybody on the ground the FAA or NTSB rarely investigate.



 -Dana

 --

  C-CODE

 C-CODE RUN

 RUN CODE RUN

 RUN DAMMIT RUN !    [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:03 am Post subject: Crash Photos

If it's an ultralight and there are no injuries to anybody on the  ground 

the FAA or NTSB rarely investigate.>>

  

 Hi Dana,

 Your system has many freedoms but this looks like the downside.  Here  there would be an investigation. Not with the purpose of punishment but trying  to find out what happened so that it could be avoided by others.

  

 Pat

  

  

   [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:32 am Post subject: Crash Photos

Patrick/Gang:

  

 The government can not prevent folks from doing  something stupid, whether it is the decision to push the throttle forward  without proper training, equipment below acceptable standards, inclement  weather, etc.

  

 I, personally, do not see a down side to this  accident by not getting the FAA and NTSB involved.  Both these agencies  have their hands full investigating "real" airplane accidents.

  

 We are already over regulated and Obama wants to  regulate us even more.  ;-(  More government, more tax.

  

 john h

 mkIII

 Marysvale, Utah - Snow on the higher  11,000+mountains on both sides of the valley.  Three or four years ago John  W and I flew over these mountains to land in Richfield, UT, for fuel and  food.  The Little Wonder Cafe on Main St is great!!!

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

  

 [quote]    Your system has many freedoms but this looks like the    downside.  Here there would be an investigation. Not with the purpose of    punishment but trying to find out what happened so that it could be avoided by    others.

    

   Pat

    

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: Crash Photos

The government can not prevent folks from doing  something stupid, >>

  

 Absolutely agree John, but a quiet word pointing  out that someone else did that before and now they are dead may be of  help.

  

 Pat 

   [quote][b]

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: Crash Photos

I agree with the "government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid" part.



 I've been involved, so to speak, in at least 3 incidents that caused damaged to my plane. No one else

 and one else's property was involved. No one was hurt or inconvenienced in anyway. 

 In all three occasions the FAA told the people (police, me, FBO, etc.) that they were not going to

 investigate because they were told the "plane" was an ultralight". They lied every time. They went out of

 their way to investigate. Things can turn ugly very quickly if you take them at their word.

 Of course things are different now with the SPL. However.............be mindful that even though they are very

 nice & professional when they ask you questions (even over the phone) they are not your friends.

 For instance - (nothing to do with the above) but if they say someone reported you flying too low (buzzing) their house - what color is your plane??

 Do not answer the question directly. Ask them what color the plan was that broke the rules. It will never

 be your color, unless you give it to them first. Maybe I just got a chip on my shoulder, but after the first time, I never

 let them trick me again. If you crashed your plane back them - take out the extra tank, remove the engine, even tear off the fabric.

 No so much of a problem anymore. But they ain't your friends!



 At 10:30 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]Patrick/Gang:

  

 The government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid,

  

 I, personally, do not see a down side to this accident by not getting the FAA and NTSB involved.  Both these agencies have their hands full investigating "real" airplane accidents.

  

 We are already over regulated and Obama wants to regulate us even more.  ;-(  More government, more tax.

 

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 [b]

_________________
Possum

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: Crash Photos

the scariest words in the western world...."Hi, I am from the Government and I am here to help you"!!!!      



   



 

 At 10:24 PM 10/22/2009, you wrote:

 [quote]I agree with the "government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid" part.



 I've been involved, so to speak, in at least 3 incidents that caused damaged to my plane. No one else

 and one else's property was involved. No one was hurt or inconvenienced in anyway. 

 In all three occasions the FAA told the people (police, me, FBO, etc.) that they were not going to

 investigate because they were told the "plane" was an ultralight". They lied every time. They went out of

 their way to investigate. Things can turn ugly very quickly if you take them at their word.

 Of course things are different now with the SPL. However.............be mindful that even though they are very

 nice & professional when they ask you questions (even over the phone) they are not your friends.

 For instance - (nothing to do with the above) but if they say someone reported you flying too low (buzzing) their house - what color is your plane??

 Do not answer the question directly. Ask them what color the plan was that broke the rules. It will never

 be your color, unless you give it to them first. Maybe I just got a chip on my shoulder, but after the first time, I never

 let them trick me again. If you crashed your plane back them - take out the extra tank, remove the engine, even tear off the fabric.

 No so much of a problem anymore. But they ain't your friends!



 At 10:30 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Patrick/Gang:

  

 The government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid,

  

 I, personally, do not see a down side to this accident by not getting the FAA and NTSB involved.  Both these agencies have their hands full investigating "real" airplane accidents.

  

 We are already over regulated and Obama wants to regulate us even more.  ;-(  More government, more tax.

 

 DO NOT ARCHIVE



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[/b] 	


 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 

 10/22/09 18:44:00[b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject: Crash Photos

At 05:02 AM 10/21/2009, pj.ladd wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  If it's an ultralight and there are no injuries to anybody on the ground 

 the FAA or NTSB rarely investigate.>>

  

 Hi Dana,

 Your system has many freedoms but this looks like the downside.  Here there would be an investigation. Not with the purpose of punishment but trying to find out what happened so that it could be avoided by others. 	


 Well, I suppose one can't have it both ways.  I'll take the freedom, and the risks and responsibilities that go along with it.



 Most of the time it's pretty clear anyway what happened.  In the case of the photos that started this discussion, although we're speculating endlessly on the details, the root cause is clear:  pilot error.



 -Dana

 --

  I started out with nothing. I still have most of it left.    [quote][b]

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: Crash Photos

I was lucky and had an FAA inspector for a neighbor.  He was a good guy and I'm sure kept me shielded fornearly 20years.  Only one time he mentioned that someone had squawked about me flying "over their house"

-I asked where that might have been because I never fly low directly over anyone's house.  End of story.

BB

do not archive



On 22, Oct 2009, at 11:24 PM, possums wrote:

[quote] I agree with the "government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid" part.



 I've been involved, so to speak, in at least 3 incidents that caused damaged to my plane. No one else

 and one else's property was involved. No one was hurt or inconvenienced in anyway. 

 In all three occasions the FAA told the people (police, me, FBO, etc.) that they were not going to

 investigate because they were told the "plane" was an ultralight". They lied every time. They went out of

 their way to investigate. Things can turn ugly very quickly if you take them at their word.

 Of course things are different now with the SPL. However.............be mindful that even though they are very

 nice & professional when they ask you questions (even over the phone) they are not your friends.

 For instance - (nothing to do with the above) but if they say someone reported you flying too low (buzzing) their house - what color is your plane??

 Do not answer the question directly. Ask them what color the plan was that broke the rules. It will never

 be your color, unless you give it to them first. Maybe I just got a chip on my shoulder, but after the first time, I never

 let them trick me again. If you crashed your plane back them - take out the extra tank, remove the engine, even tear off the fabric.

 No so much of a problem anymore. But they ain't your friends!



 At 10:30 AM 10/21/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Patrick/Gang:

  

 The government can not prevent folks from doing something stupid,

  

 I, personally, do not see a down side to this accident by not getting the FAA and NTSB involved.  Both these agencies have their hands full investigating "real" airplane accidents.

  

 We are already over regulated and Obama wants to regulate us even more.  ;-(  More government, more tax.

 

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 

	


[b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Crash Photos

Only one time he mentioned that someone had  squawked about me flying "over their  house">>

  

 Hi Robert,

 until recently microlights have been constrained by  the usual `not closer to any building or large group of people and being able to  glide clear`` stuff but this has  been relaxed and we can now fly over  villages and towns under the same rules as `normal` light aircraft. LOW? you had  better be landing or taking off.

  

 Pat

 



   [quote][b]

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