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Tansfer pump Ideas?
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herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Tansfer pump Ideas?

Same here Jack...the motor, brushes and all was immersed in gasoline... Herb

At 08:40 PM 5/24/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 14:42:22 -0700



Oh, btw, Facet uses the same style motor for their fuel pump as ALL 

in-tank fuel pumps....brushless motors.   Ooooooh!    (more ghost noises)

...........................



Mike,



I cut open the one that came out of the tank on my 96 GMC Sonoma and the

pump had brushes.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas?

George,



I also thought about the possibility of overfilling the main tank in my Kolb with the AUX tank.  If I every got really brain dead, and pumped my AUX fuel into my main tanks way to soon, the mains would overfill and go out the vent tube for my main tanks which exits the bottom of the plane.  The worst that happens is I pump gas overboard at 4 bucks a gallon    



Mark, 



The Facet pump is pretty darn reliable as long as you have a fuel filter in line before the pump.  I would worry more about an electrical failure making that pump stop rather than the pump itself.   What kind of engine do you have ?   The engine driven fuel pump on the Rotax 447 trike that I fly only costs about 30 bucks.  It would be cheap and easy to have both pumps on your plane which would keep your engine running in case a wire breaks or electrical power lost for some reason.



Mike

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_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: Tansfer pump Ideas?

The worst that happens is I pump gas overboard at 4 bucks a gallon >>



I should waste it at 4 bucks a gallon before it gets to 8 bucks which it is 

over here



Cheers



Pat

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:26 am Post subject: Tansfer pump Ideas?

I have the standard two fives in my MkIII.  I have them top fed and

valved for either/or>>



Hi Robert, Just curious. Why go to the extra complication. Why not have the 

pump draw all the time from both tanks. You will go just as far.



Cheers



Pat

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:43 am Post subject: Tansfer pump Ideas?

Adding a third tank to this system just increases the chances that you will 

one day have a slight leak somewhere.>>



Hi Mike,

although in theory you are correct I think that sort of thinking is on a par 

with the idea that the way to make sure that there is no bomb on a plane you 

are flying in is to take one with you. The statistical chance of there being 

2 bombs on board are so small that you can fly in safety.

The same arguement would apply to having a bigger tank, a longer fuel line 

etc. The corollary is that the smaller tank you have the safer it is and you 

can see where that arguement leads.



Surely the object of having extra fuel, in whatever form, larger tanks or 

extra tanks is to help ensure that you do NOT run out of fuel. Of course if 

you are the sort of idiot who regularly runs his tanks to the bottom then 

you will eventually come unstuck no matter how much fuel you carry.

If you have a disastrous leak then the more little tanks you have the safer 

you will be .On the other hand according to you the more tanks you have the 

more likely you are to have a leak.



I  think I will walk

Cheers



Pat

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lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Tansfer pump Ideas?

I had a transfer system on my ultralight years ago, it had a seat tank and I used an electric fuel pump from the car parts store to pump it up into the main root tube tank.



I suppose I used it about 3 times before I got rid of it as all the extra tubing and keeping track of when to fill the main tank, etcl, started making me a bit nervous. 



I'm a kicking-around-the-patch type flyer anyway (probably part of the reason I like sailplane so much) and didn't have a need for really long-haul fuel reserves at the time, so I dismantled it.



Otherwise, I'd have simply kept the seat tank as an auxiliary tank and had the pump draw out of both of them at the same time.



So I'd say try to simply add another tank and put it in as part of the regular fuel supply and forgo the transfer dealie. I.e. John H and John W. have larger custom tanks in their planes for extra range (I believe without any transer type setup, correct me if I"m wrong) and that seems to be the best way to go IMO.



For what it's worth, when I fly my titan home from Nebraska, I airport-hopped enough that I never started getting low on fuel with its 15 gal. tank. And that's feeding the 912uls. 

But I suppose in more remote areas that's not as much of an option so a bigger tank would be needed....



LS

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_________________
LS
Titan II SS

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: Tansfer pump Ideas?

If I have both full.  Sometimes I have just one full for local flights

and valve off the the other.



On 25, May 2008, at 9:21 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have the standard two fives in my MkIII.  I have them top fed and

 valved for either/or>>



 Hi Robert, Just curious. Why go to the extra complication. Why not  

 have the pump draw all the time from both tanks. You will go just  

 as far.



 Cheers



 Pat

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neilsenrm(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Tansfer pump Ideas?

I use a aux fuel tank in my airplane quite a bit and have for some years. The tank is almost exactly like Steven Green's aux tank. I might have copied the idea from him. A larger main tank would be better and safer if I was flying cross country more. The aux tank extends my range from 2.5 hours with no reserve 1.5 hours with my personal reserve to 4 hours or 3 hours with my personal reserve. The aux tank uses a simple top drain with a dip tube. I pump the fuel from the aux tank to the top of my main tanks as soon as I can on a long flight. The first transfer will be when I'm only down a few gallons and will continue every half hour till the aux tank is empty. I like to transfer early to keep my options open. If there is any problem with fuel transfer I want it to happen when I have the most fuel. I can safely drain the aux tank down to empty. I can remove this tank if necessary to retrive more fuel.

  

 I use the standard two 5 gallon main tanks and draw from the bottom. In ten years I have never had a leak. Three years ago I replaced to old tanks because I felt it was time. I like the idea of a bottom drain due to its simplicity. The drain always pulls fuel from the same level in the tank from the low spot on opposite sides from the other tank. If in turblance there is a momentary entry of air in the system it isn't a problem. With a top drain sucks air at best it would cause a potential pressure drop till the siphon action is restored. In the worst cases you might have a fuel flow stoppage from one tank or maybe even both tanks. If I were feeding fuel from the top I would have a selector valve and feed from only one tank at a time. This adds a point of failure from forgetting to switch tanks but the it would be less of a concern than unknownly having a one tank feed stoppage.

  

 my .02 worth

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

  

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com> 



[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lucien" 

 

 I had a transfer system on my ultralight years ago, it had a seat tank and I 

 used an electric fuel pump from the car parts store to pump it up into the main 

 root tube tank. 

 

 I suppose I used it about 3 times before I got rid of it as all the extra tubing 

 and keeping track of when to fill the main tank, etcl, started making me a bit 

 nervous. 

 

 I'm a kicking-around-the-patch type flyer anyway (probably part of the reason I 

 like sailplane so much) and didn't have a need for really long-haul fuel 

 reserves at the time, so I dismantled it. 

 

 Otherwise, I'd have simply kept the seat tank as an auxi  liary  tank and had the 

 pump draw out of both of them at the same time. 

 

 So I'd say try to simply add another tank and put it in as part of the regular 

 fuel supply and forgo the transfer dealie. I.e. John H and John W. have larger 

 custom tanks in their planes for extra range (I believe without any transer type 

 setup, correct me if I"m wrong) and that seems to be the best way to go IMO. 

 

 For what it's worth, when I fly my titan home from Nebraska, I airport-hopped 

 enough that I never started getting low on fuel with its 15 gal. tank. And 

 that's feeding the 912uls. 

 But I suppose in more remote areas that's not as much of an option so a bigger 

 tank would be needed.... 

 

 LS 

 

 -------- 

 LS 

 FS II 

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184750  #18475  ====== ====================================================== 

 

 

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