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NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:32 am Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Hi

  

 Anybody on this list? I am considering building a Sportsman 2+2, anybody  out there building one. I have previously built a Zenith CH-701 and am looking  for something with more speed and carrying capacity.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX  CH701/912S

  [quote][b]

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi

  

 Anybody on this list? I am considering building a Sportsman 2+2, anybody

 out there building one. I have previously built a Zenith CH-701 and am

 looking for something with more speed and carrying capacity.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX  CH701/912S


	


Hi Bob,

	I'm building a Glastar Sportsman 2+2, slow build wings and tail, QB

fuselage.   I'd be glad to try to answer any questions you might have.



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Dj,

  

 Thanks for the reply. I looked at your website, great detail. Have you done  anything with the fuselage yet? It doesn't look like you have posted anything  since April. I know it is a lot of work to keep up with a website along with  building a plane. Have you flown in a finished Sportsman 2+2 yet? Looked at the  pictures that you took of the factory plane, great photo's. I hope to get to Sun  n Fun next year.

  

 Thanks again

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 9/2/2006 11:01:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  deej(at)deej.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Glasair-List message posted by: Dj Merrill    <deej(at)deej.net>



NYTerminat(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		      Hi

  

 Anybody on this list? I am considering building a    Sportsman 2+2, anybody

 out there building one. I have previously built    a Zenith CH-701 and am

 looking for something with more speed and    carrying capacity.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX     CH701/912S


	


Hi Bob,

    I'm building a Glastar Sportsman    2+2, slow build wings and tail, QB

fuselage.   I'd be glad to try    to answer any questions you might have.



-Dj



-- 

Dj    Merrill

Sportsman 2+2 Builder    #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"TSA: Totally Screwing    Aviation"



	


 

  

  [quote][b]

stevekean(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

What are ya'll budgeting for your 2+2's?   I was taken back by  some numbers I saw at Oskosh.  Perhaps if you shared what you expect to  shell out for the complete kit, less paint, firewall forward and electronics it  would rekindle my interest in this awesome kit.

 [quote]   ---

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:52 am Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Steve Kean wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   What are ya'll budgeting for your 2+2's?   I was taken back by some

 numbers I saw at Oskosh.  Perhaps if you shared what you expect to shell

 out for the complete kit, less paint, firewall forward and electronics

 it would rekindle my interest in this awesome kit.


	


	Actually, I try not to think about it...    I'm on the "build as I

can afford" plan.  I have the SB wings and tail, QB fuselage, and that

will take me at least a couple of years, if not more, to complete before

I need to buy other parts.  I have a Glasair 1 FT that I will sell to

fund the engine/prop package, and I'll buy the panel goodies over time

as money allows (or maybe do some financing for this depending on my

patience).



	You can figure out your cost for the complete kit by going to the

Glasair Aviation web site (www.glasairaviation.com).  They have the

complete kit pricing, plus build options, etc so you can pick and choose

how you want to build and now right away how much it will cost you.  The

basic kit with no QB options is $39,950 according to the website:

http://www.glasairaviation.com/pricesportsman.html

-Dj

do not archive



-- 

Dj Merrill

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

As a rule of thumb, you can figure on your completed flying kit will cost

you three (3) times the basic kit cost.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

stevekean(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

I saw info on a 2 week start to fly which was in the neighborhood of 

$175,000 .  Good publicity for build time, bad reflection on typical build 

cost?   3 x kit sounds much better!.   Thanks guys.

---

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Steve Kean wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I saw info on a 2 week start to fly which was in the neighborhood of

 $175,000 .  Good publicity for build time, bad reflection on typical

 build cost?   3 x kit sounds much better!.   Thanks guys.


	


	It is $133k

(http://www.glasairaviation.com/twoweekstotaxipricing.html).  Not bad if

you can afford it!  And not too far off the 3x rule of thumb.  



-Dj

do not archive



-- 

Dj Merrill

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

I say we need a new rule or a different thumb! I know that you are right  though.

  

 Bob Spudis

 do not archive

  

  

  

 As a rule of thumb, you can figure on your completed flying kit will  cost

you three (3) times the basic kit  cost.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

 

  

  [quote][b]

kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

You know, there was a time when kits were were actually cheap.  I know 

$39,000.00 x3 is cheaper than buying a factory built plane but I still think 

$39,000 for a basic kit is none the less very expensive for what you get 

which is basically a fiberglass and tube shell.



I can't help but think that the price is not refelective of the cost to 

produce plus a nice profit margin but instead the highest amount possible 

they can think they can get away with before a fellow says forget it I can 

almost buy a factory built for that price.



For example $39,000x3 = $117000.  Now go to say Maule's website and price 

out what a brand new 180hp or 235hp Maule m7 would go for and it really 

isn't much more. And in this case a Sportsman 2+2 compared to a 180 M7 the 

factory plane actually wins on alot of fronts.



I think the kit sellers need to be a bit more cautions about their pricing 

and kit buyer need to take a step back and not assume that all kits 

regardless of final finish price are going to be cheaper and out preform 

factory.  I'm forcasting a week interest in the 2+2 as it doesn't out 

preform certain factory built aircraft that are only marginally more 

expensive.



Kevinsky



Kevin



Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Canada



From: NYTerminat(at)aol.com

Reply-To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com

To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Sportsman 2+2

Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 00:39:00 EDT

I say we need a new rule or a different thumb! I know that you are right

though.



Bob Spudis

do not archive



As a rule of thumb, you can figure on your completed flying kit will  cost

you three (3) times the basic kit  cost.



Bruce

www.glasair.org

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:41 am Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Kevin Williams wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   For example $39,000x3 = $117000.  Now go to say Maule's website and

 price out what a brand new 180hp or 235hp Maule m7 would go for and it

 really isn't much more. And in this case a Sportsman 2+2 compared to a

 180 M7 the factory plane actually wins on alot of fronts.

 

 I think the kit sellers need to be a bit more cautions about their

 pricing and kit buyer need to take a step back and not assume that all

 kits regardless of final finish price are going to be cheaper and out

 preform factory.  I'm forcasting a week interest in the 2+2 as it

 doesn't out preform certain factory built aircraft that are only

 marginally more expensive.


	


	How much is it worth to be able to do all the work and annual condition

inspections on your own aircraft, or be able to put any equipment you

want in it, and customize it to your hearts content?



	If someone is just looking for an airplane to fly, they aren't likely

to consider Experimentals anyways.  It is the passion of being able to

get really involved in your airplane that drives people to Experimentals

(well, me at least, or that loose screw in my skull  *grin*).



	Performance was not the leading choice for me to select the Sportsman,

but having said that, I don't know of any factory certified aircraft

that can meet or exceed the Sportsman specs for the same price, even if

you went with the Two Weeks to Taxi program at $133k:

http://www.glasairaviation.com/sportsmanspecs.html



	The Maule MX-7-180A Sportplane at $133k is close,

<http://www.mauleairinc.com/Our_Planes/Maule_MX-7-180A_and_180AC_Spor/maule_mx-7-180a_and_180ac_spor.html>

but it is 30+ mph slower, climbs about half as fast, and has a slightly

longer take-off and landing roll, but it does have about an 8 mph lower

stall speed.  I don't think the wings fold back, which was an important

consideration for me with the Sportsman.



	I guess it just depends on what you want.  There are enough variety of

aircraft out there for everyone!  



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"

Craymondw(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

I once asked the owner of Van's aircraft why his kits are so cheap. His reply was why was everyone else's kits where so expensive!  [quote][b]

Craymondw(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these expensive kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed. I feel these sky high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of many of these high price kit companies.   [quote][b]

kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Kevin



Yellowknife, Northwest Territories, Canada

All excellent points.



From: Craymondw(at)aol.com

Reply-To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com

To: glasair-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Sportsman 2+2

Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:23:34 EDT



The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that

homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU at 

very a

reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these expensive kit

manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the boost it needed. I 

feel these sky

high kit prices will eventually bring about the collapse of many of these 

high

price kit companies.

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Perhaps you  just don't have the economic muscle or persistance to be a kit  builder.

  

  

 

Bruce

www.glasair.org

   [quote]   

   --

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Craymondw(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I once asked the owner of Van's aircraft why his kits are so cheap. 

 His reply was why was everyone else's kits where so expensive!

 *

 *


	


    Van's doesn't sell an airplane that matches what I want.  Somehow I 

can't see an RV-10 on floats or landing on a rough short strip...  



-Dj

do not archive



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV

Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an 

airplane."  --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:55 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Craymondw(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The designer of the T-18 aircraft, designed that plane to prove that 

 homebuilder's could easily build a high performance plane using a GPU 

 at very a reasonable price. I often felt it was Thorpe and not these 

 expensive kit manufacturers that gave the home builder movement the 

 boost it needed. I feel these sky high kit prices will eventually 

 bring about the collapse of many of these high price kit companies.


	


    *shrug*  So perhaps the Thorpe is a better choice for you as a 

kitplane.  A friend of mine is building a Sonex due to its relatively 

low cost.  I don't think any more or less of him because he isn't 

building a Glasair Aviation product.  There are enough different types 

of kitplanes out there to satisfy most everyone's needs/wants. 



    Now, when there is a kit that is both a car and an airplane, I might 

have to seriously reconsider my selection!  *grin*



-Dj

do not archive



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV

Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/



"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an 

airplane."  --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005

kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

What kind of pathetic insult is that?  Economic muscle? Maybe the next 

e-mail will poke fun at my small manhood.  Please, try and be a bit more 

intelligent in your debate and responses.



$40,000 for a bare bones kit is steep in my opinion and it has nothing to do 

with how much money I have to spend, it has to do with $40,000 not being 

reflective of what you get which is a bit of fiberglass and tubing.



Compare what type of car you could buy for $40,000 and you begin to see what 

I mean.



In reality the kit has maybe $5000-$7000 worth of material.  Even if the 

price was doubled to $14000 for a nice heft profit margin it still doesn't 

come close to the sticker price.



I'm not pooh poohing on kits, I like kits.  I'm suggesting that if kit 

builders continue to raise prices then sooner or later people will be faced 

with the same situation as factory aircraft and that is a plane that is just 

to cost prohibitive to build.



Saving money on maintenance is irrelevant if you can�t afford to start or 

finish the kit.





Bruce

www.glasair.org

--

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

If you have to ask the price, you can't afford to play.



As a general rule of thumb, any manufacturer has to charge 3 times the cost

of finished goods to stay in business. That's without covering all the R&D

money it takes to develop the product. 

Bruce

www.glasair.org

 



--

nandrand(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: Sportsman 2+2

Bruce. Well said!!! It's the old saying," Make sure brain is engaged, before 

opperating mouth"!!!  Regards to all. Noel

---

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