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First Flight
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Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:10 am Post subject: First Flight



=09

=09

Happy New Year, All Y'all !

I have a question: How many of you used a test pilot on the first flight?

My young bride wants me to give up that once in a lifetime event. So does my Doctor. I think he's the one prompting her to such thoughts. Any thoughts worth reading?

Rick

dsire(at)imt.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: First Flight



Personally, I think it would be safest (for you and the airplane) if you

get several hours "in type" and then fly it yourself. That's what I plan

to do. Unless the test pilot has a number of hours in the same

configuration that you are building, their experience doesn't count for

all that much.

Doug Sire

601XL (waiting on kit)

 	  Quote: 	
		   Happy New Year, All Y'all !

I have a question: How many of you used a test pilot on

the first flight?

My young bride wants me to give up that once in a lifetime

event. So does my Doctor. I think he's the one prompting

her to such thoughts. Any thoughts worth reading?

Rick

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: First Flight



I did not use a test pilot.

In fact the only thing I'd flown regularly before was a cessna. I had

not flown for 4 months prior to the maiden voyage. And had a total time

of about 90 hours.

So I needed some time with a stick and a low wing. Nearest thing was an

Acroduster, which is a biplane. I shot like like 4 approaches in this

beast...Didn't land it of course as I'd never landed a taildragger.

I spent quite a bit of time doing little hops/high speed taxi.

Must say the HDS was a dream to fly...piece of cake...Just keep some

power on right through the landing flair till you get used to it.

I do not recommend this approach at all but there was no way to get any

time in a similar model...I have 'checked out" a few builders in my HDS

and they all reported no problems when making the first flight.

For the RV I will be getting transition training however as I too am now

married...

Frank

HDS 387 hours

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: First Flight



Hi Rick,

First, let me say my wife is smart enough not to give me a choice

between her or my plane. My doctor has already said she would be

delighted to go for a ride in my plane.

In my case, I have not yet completed my plane, but when I do there

isn't enough force in the world to get me to allow someone else to test fly it.

In all fairness, I am qualified to do the test flying. I have had a

private license for 35 years, and my stick and rudder skills are

considerably above average. I know this because I used to scare

flight instructors - they told me they didn't have any skill margin

over me so they could not recover a plane if I lost it. Even after

that, they were still willing to go flying with me under very

marginal conditions.

In your case, I suggest you do a fair evaluation of your own

skills. It would be wise to take advantage of an EAA advisor to help

you do a fair analysis (I plan to to that). I also suggest you take

whatever steps are necessary or even reasonable to build your skills

to a sufficient point where it is a reasonably safe bet that you can

handle the flight testing. If necessary, fly rental planes for a

couple of hundred hours to build the necessary skills.

After all that, I suggest you have a nice frank talk with your spouse

and doctor. Let them know how you really feel and give them a chance

to reconsider their positions with the full knowledge that if they

put themselves between you and your plane they might just end up with

the fuzzy end of the stick.

Good luck,

Paul

XL wings

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a question: How many of you used a test

pilot on the first flight?

My young bride wants me to give up that once in a

lifetime event. So does my Doctor. I think he's the one

prompting her to such thoughts. Any thoughts worth reading?

Rick

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: First Flight



Personally I am torn. I don't think I have enough experience overall to

recover from some unexpected event. On the other hand there was that case

back east where the builder had a very experienced pilot (multiple thousands

of hours) do the first flight. As the builder watched the plane took off,

crashed into a building and the test pilot killed. The plane even had a BRS

and the pilot had been specifically instructed on arming and firing it. I

don't know that I can morally ask someone else to test my plane even if both

of us had gone over it with a fine-toothed comb.

So that leaves me testing it myself. Which brings up the oft-posed question:

is it better to just lift off on the first run and climb or do some short

hops first?

-- Craig

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: First Flight



I certainly felt I had a feeling for its control during the high speed

taxi. I had a 6000ft runway and advised traffic I would be doing a

ground run only.

The naughty boy that I am I did allow it to lift off to 10 or 20 feet on

a number of these runs...I felt very comfortable come flight time..

Like you I could not imagine allowing somebody else to take the risk.

Frank

larrymc(at)qconline.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: First Flight



Rick,

If you're a good basic pilot with the necessity of flying a basic

aircraft that you've built and you have health, currency of medical

and a willingness to fly with an instructor in a similar aircraft,

there's no good reason to not fly first flight yourself. If your doctor

thinks you'll faint, you need another doctor. If your wife presumes her

judgment is better than yours, you have bigger problems to

deal with. You have to make this decision all by yourself, otherwise

you'll have to ask her for weather briefings to go flying.

Seriously, your first flight is going to be something that will occur

even if it is or isn't the first flight of your aircraft. It's going to be

something new and I wouldn't want to give that up just because the wife

says you can't do it. And an ATP pilot won't do it any better

than you would.

Larry McFarland - 601HDS - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

do not archive

Beckman, Rick wrote:

Happy New Year, All Y'all !

I have a question: How many of you used a test pilot on the first flight?

My young bride wants me to give up that once in a lifetime event. So does my Doctor. I think he's the one prompting her to such thoughts. Any thoughts worth reading?

Rick

rdewees(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: First Flight



Hi Rick,

I guess I am the odd duck on this question. I fly a 601 HDS taildragger

out of a 2200 foot turf strip with limited space for emergency

landings. I had no reason to expect a problem with the plane and have

several hundred hours in taildraggers and many more in complex

aircraft. That being said I was fortunate enough to have a pilot at our

field who has owned over 60 different planes and flown several hundred

more. He is so thorough that he researched the airfoil of the 601 and

found that it was the same one as a Bebe Jodel, which he had a lot of

experience with. He knew what to expect before he ever taxied it and

could almost have written the cruse and stall numbers before trying them

out.

He offered to do the checkout flight and I stood by and recorded

numbers over the radio. I still felt like a proud papa and my ego

wasn't bruised at all. My first flight was a non event for the plane

but a sky high one for me. I felt like I had an edge since I knew there

weren't going to be reversed controls, extreme trim problems or fuel

flow difficulties. If I had it to do again, I would! Not because he

had a gazillion hours, but because he know what to expect and was a lot

more objective than I was.

I would certainly agree that the HDS is a great plane, easy to fly,

and a LOT of fun. There just isn't (to me) a reason to add emotions to

a challenging first flight experience when talented pilots could improve

the odds of a successful event.

That's my experience. Your results may vary, etc.

Ron

Beckman, Rick wrote:

=09

=09

Happy New Year, All Y'all !

I have a question: How many of you used a test pilot on the first flight?

My young bride wants me to give up that once in a lifetime event. So does my Doctor. I think he's the one prompting her to such thoughts. Any thoughts worth reading?

Rick

JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: First Flight



Rick, I had the test pilot from AMD in Eastman fly my XL for the first flight

and I know for me it was the correct decision. I was so concerned about my

"baby" that I was a nervous wreck and I'm not ashamed to say it. I flew it the

second and all subsequent 50 plus hours and I do not regret it. Instead of just

flying and surviving I am sure I would have been analyzing every sound, bump

and ding to the point of absolute distraction. FWIW. Bill

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: First Flight



Rick and others,

FWIW I did some "Flight Advisor" work many years before the EAA started a

formal program. I have test flown all three of my homebuilt airplanes. I

have had problems on the first flight. Have a minimum properly briefed

groung crew. Let them do all the recording of numbers etc. I strongly urge

you to work with an EAA flight advisor if possible. Remember you will truly

be a test pilot!

Make sure you have a reasonable amount of current flying time. Prefeably in

similar or same type of aircraft.

Some taxiing is necessary, but be careful of "high speed" taxiing especially

with tail draggers. I've had personsal friends tear up airplanes doing this.

Get the airplane in the air, get comfortable with it, practice a couple of

approaches at altitude, noting the speed. Use this to determine the approach

speed for the first landing.

Don't be too proud to use a "test pilot".

Jim Hoak

do not archive

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject: First Flight



"Personally I am torn. I don't think I have enough experience overall to

recover from some unexpected event. On the other hand there was that case

back east where the builder had a very experienced pilot (multiple thousands

of hours) do the first flight. "

At least one lister had Nick and Roger come out from Mexico (MO), inspect

the plane, generate a "punch list" of things to correct, and do the first

flight. The advantage here is that both Nick and Roger know this plane very

well from both the building and flying perspectives. If there is any moral

question, certainly these two are very well qualified and extremely capable.

It was expensive, but I remember the lister saying it was worth it.

Jeff Davidson

CH 601 HD w/Jabiru 3300A

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: First Flight



I have also heard (second-hand) that you can go to Mexico, MO for

familiarization flights in the factory demos. Has anyone done this?

-- Craig

leogates(at)allvantage.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: First Flight



I did 10 to 15 short hops. I had no surprises. Trim was OK and the

plane seemed to land itself, after pulling the power back. Then I had

my DAR inspection. He said, "You have short hopped it, right?"

Leo Gates

N601Z

82 hrs and I still can't stop smiling!

Do not archive.

Craig Payne wrote:

So that leaves me testing it myself. Which brings up the oft-posed question:

is it better to just lift off on the first run and climb or do some short

hops first?

-- Craig

d3dw(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: First Flight



I flew the prototype HDS three times. Twice in Mexico and once at the Tulsa fly -in in 1992.

cfd(at)thegateway.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: First Flight

`Zenith alowed me to fly their 701 with Roger in the right seat before I flew mine. I did have a very expeienced pilot fly my 701 the first time though. Chuck D. N701TX I have also heard (second-hand) that you can go to Mexico, MO for familiarization flights in the factory demos. Has anyone done this? -- Craig`

d3dw(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: First Flight



If you have a real desire to test fly your plane, you can do it...but you must prepare yourself. some good advice has been given about doing that.

Regarding taxi testing, I recommend lots of it with gradually increasing speeds to the point of taxiing at steady speedwith the nose wheel up or the tail up. I personally think High speed taxiing is good to build up to in a tail dragger. But work up to this in steps. These designs are solid in their controls and manageable as you get a feel for them with increasing taxi runs with increased speed...20, 30, 40, 50..up to 60+ in a tail dragger. Do numerous runs at each speed until you are confident of the feel of controls.

Faa Advice is to test ground handling throughout the range. I wanted to know what mine was going to feel like as it hit the ground, so I taxi tested to 70 mph numerous times with nothing but solid control feel in the HDS... by then I had no fears of flying the plane. don Walker HDS taildragger 365 hrs

Rick.Beckman(at)atk.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:22 am Post subject: First Flight



=09

It's me, again, about this first flight thing.

I sure want to thank all of you for your input on this. What I left out of the first post is that the plane is not finished, but I only need a hundred hours or so to " git 'er done "! All that's left is the wiring, canopy, seats, and paint. This is an XL with a Jabiru 3300. The main runway at KLXT in Lee's Summit, MO, is 4015 ft. long, so it should allow a few hops and rather fast taxiing.

As for my Dr., he's just looking out for me, that's all. My wife? well, that's another story. She likes to fly with me and is learning to land and navigate---no desire to get her ticket, though. She does, however, need to know how to fly and land. I told her that if the Good Lord calls me home while we are up, there's no need fot both of us to go! This bird is going to be our vacation transportation to parts, as of yet, unknown. Few things in this world scare me, such as first flight, but I don't intend to tempt destruction, either. I do need more hours and definitely more time in this type. I've been told that ZAC might work out something for a little more time in the Demo. I'll have to check and see as the time to lift off gets closer.

Again, I want to thank all of you that responded to this. These types of responses are what make this site so SUPER!!

I hope and Pray that all of you have a happy and safe New Year !

Rick Beckman

Midwest Mudworks

729 MSL and sinking

www.sharbo.us/thebird

Do NOT archive

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: First Flight



Good day. Here is a link to an article written by Chris Heintz about the

first flight. Hope you find it interesting.

Jean-Paul

http://exp-aircraft.com/library/heintz/testing.html

dgarrou(at)hunton.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: First Flight



I'm recently divorced, so I'll test fly it in exchange for travel expenses. 

Fine print: Free test-pilot offer void where prohibited by law, and contingent upon (a) satisfactory completion of lengthy preflight inspection and (b) use of an aircraft-specific, rather than auto-conversion, powerplant.

(ducking.....)

Doug Garrou

Project 801

www.garrou.com

p.s. I take it back, if you can squeeze one of Ben Haas's engines on there, I'll also fly behind that.

p.p.s. Gotta dump a doctor who gives flying, rather than medical, advice, and who passes along said commentary to your spouse. That's just incredibly subversive and must violate some medical oath he or she took somewhere. As the Three Stooges would say, "The Noive!"

p.p.p.s. With respect to the spouse, obviously I am in no position to offer guidance.

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: First Flight

Thank you for the link to Chris Heintz's flight test articles. I just finished reading both articles and found them very useful. I was particularly impressed with how Chris suggests a completely different approach for testing a kit/plans built plane on its first flight compared to the first flight for a new airplane design prototype . The big difference is Chris's plan hits the high points of the entire flight envelope while the FAA circular suggests only slow flight for the first flight. For me, this is another example of how valuable this list can be. Paul XL wings At 06:06 AM 1/5/2006, you wrote: <jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sympatico.ca> Good day. Here is a link to an article written by Chris Heintz about the first flight. Hope you find it interesting. Jean-Paul http://exp-aircraft.com/library/heintz/testing.html

----

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