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Anyone who can spare a small sample of Araldite 420?

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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:55 am Post subject: Anyone who can spare a small sample of Araldite 420?

I am hoping someone can send me a small sample of unexpired Araldite

420 for comparative testing.



I have a large batch of long expired Araldite 420.Although it seems to

cure as strong as when it was new, I want to do some quantitative

tensile tests before using it on critical parts. However, I would need

some unexpired samples to compare against. I would only need perhaps 2

or 3 ounces worth. If anyone would be kind enough to send me a small

vial of the unexpired resin and hardener, that would much appreciated.

Since I am in the U.S., mailing logistics may be easiest from

U.S.builders.



Of course, I would share the results of this tests with everyone once

I have them.

Thank you

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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:29 pm Post subject: Anyone who can spare a small sample of Araldite 420?

Steve



Thanks for the reply. I was considering doing the tests on metal

plates to get a quantitative idea of the degradation, but what you say

makes more sense since the critical bonds on the Europa are mostly to

fiberglass.



On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:10 PM, hagargs <hagargs(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

[quote] 



 Andrew:



 You shouldn't need to do comparison testing.  When doing tensile testing your joint should not fail at the adhesive. Your sample coupon should fail at the base material. Make your coupon out of the requisite number of fiberglass layers. You  want to ensure your adhesive is stronger than the material you are gluing together.  I've done tensile tests on my old adhesive and always had the fiberglass break before the adhesive gave way.



 Steve Hagar.



 --

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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:30 am Post subject: Anyone who can spare a small sample of Araldite 420?

Nigel



Thanks much for your input, and the link to the strength data.



I had a similar issue with Aeropoxy, and was told by one of their reps

that it should not be a problem. The only change I have noticed is the

hardener (PH3660) turns red and eventually very deep red despite being

in the original sealed container. Although the bond strength appeared

to be good, the hardener is pretty cheap and easy to acquire

($35/quart) so that is what I did. But the Araldite 420 is pricey. It

doesn't seem possible just buy the hardener separately. The resin and

hardener comes as a single kit, and I was quoted $900 for a single can

from the only US source I could find.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:02 AM, nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk

<nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Andrew,



 I read your post with interest as I have pondered the same question.



 I bought my first kit in 1994. It was supplied with two cans of Redux, one

 of which I opened and began using until the project ground to a halt (like

 so many), the other remained sealed.



 Long after the “use-by” date, I resumed construction and mindful of the age

 of the Redux but curios as to how it degraded with time, I contacted

 Ciba-Geigy and was lucky enough to be able to speak to one of their research

 chemists.



 Refreshingly honest, he assured me that both resin and hardener are totally

 inert and very stable and that, in theory, it would not degrade over time.

 When I asked why they advised a 36 month “use by” shelf-life, he answered

 that as epoxies were relatively “modern”, there was no historical evidence

 of any degradation and that it was only added to placate various regulating

 authorities.  He did warn that the yellow resin would most likely

 crystallize over time, but that chemically it was unaltered and a gentle

 warming in a water bath would restore it to its original liquid state (the

 opened can subsequently did, as predicted, and was restored exactly as

 advised).



 Returning to my two original cans, both had a use-by date of October 1998 –

 I still have them and continue to use them today, 18 years after

 manufacture. It works perfectly.



 This also remains true of other epoxies. My SP Systems Ampreg 20 still

 performs perfectly (expiry 1999) and my super-expensive Polyfibre

 “Super-Fill” works perfectly too (expiry 1999).



 Before the finger wagging begins, I should explain that I acquired the

 mortal remains of a cart-wheeled Europa to allow me to develop repair

 strategies for the compression fractured ailerons, flaps and tail. – The

 time-ex’d epoxy was used on these. The resulting components are

 indistinguishable from new-build parts. I keep test samples of each resin

 mix in clear plastic egg-boxes, with encapsulated paper slips listing date,

 batch no and component-used-on in each compartment for trace-ability.



 Here is a link to the Redux (Araldite) 420 data sheet listing the target

 peel strength test figures:



 http://www.ambercomposites.com/downloads/datasheet/araldite-420-tds-v1.pdf



 atb



 Nigel



 On 06/11/2013 17:54, Andrew Sarangan wrote:



 Snip .....I am hoping someone can send me a small sample of unexpired

 Araldite

 420 for comparative testing.

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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: Anyone who can spare a small sample of Araldite 420?

To add to that, the Araldite 420 I located in the U.S. seems to have a

different shelf life than the one I got from the UK. This is Araldite

420, not Epibond 420. The vendor (http://www.adhesivesforsale.com)

said his stock expires in 6 months. The original bottles were

apparently labeled for only 12 month expiry. So the expiration dates

are most likely related to regional issues such as liability and

record-keeping reasons more than the chemical itself.



On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Andrew Sarangan <asarangan(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Nigel



 Thanks much for your input, and the link to the strength data.



 I had a similar issue with Aeropoxy, and was told by one of their reps

 that it should not be a problem. The only change I have noticed is the

 hardener (PH3660) turns red and eventually very deep red despite being

 in the original sealed container. Although the bond strength appeared

 to be good, the hardener is pretty cheap and easy to acquire

 ($35/quart) so that is what I did. But the Araldite 420 is pricey. It

 doesn't seem possible just buy the hardener separately. The resin and

 hardener comes as a single kit, and I was quoted $900 for a single can

 from the only US source I could find.



 On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:02 AM, nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk

 <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:

> Andrew,

>

> I read your post with interest as I have pondered the same question.

>

> I bought my first kit in 1994. It was supplied with two cans of Redux, one

> of which I opened and began using until the project ground to a halt (like

> so many), the other remained sealed.

>

> Long after the “use-by” date, I resumed construction and mindful of the age

> of the Redux but curios as to how it degraded with time, I contacted

> Ciba-Geigy and was lucky enough to be able to speak to one of their research

> chemists.

>

> Refreshingly honest, he assured me that both resin and hardener are totally

> inert and very stable and that, in theory, it would not degrade over time.

> When I asked why they advised a 36 month “use by” shelf-life, he answered

> that as epoxies were relatively “modern”, there was no historical evidence

> of any degradation and that it was only added to placate various regulating

> authorities.  He did warn that the yellow resin would most likely

> crystallize over time, but that chemically it was unaltered and a gentle

> warming in a water bath would restore it to its original liquid state (the

> opened can subsequently did, as predicted, and was restored exactly as

> advised).

>

> Returning to my two original cans, both had a use-by date of October 1998 –

> I still have them and continue to use them today, 18 years after

> manufacture. It works perfectly.

>

> This also remains true of other epoxies. My SP Systems Ampreg 20 still

> performs perfectly (expiry 1999) and my super-expensive Polyfibre

> “Super-Fill” works perfectly too (expiry 1999).

>

> Before the finger wagging begins, I should explain that I acquired the

> mortal remains of a cart-wheeled Europa to allow me to develop repair

> strategies for the compression fractured ailerons, flaps and tail. – The

> time-ex’d epoxy was used on these. The resulting components are

> indistinguishable from new-build parts. I keep test samples of each resin

> mix in clear plastic egg-boxes, with encapsulated paper slips listing date,

> batch no and component-used-on in each compartment for trace-ability.

>

> Here is a link to the Redux (Araldite) 420 data sheet listing the target

> peel strength test figures:

>

> http://www.ambercomposites.com/downloads/datasheet/araldite-420-tds-v1.pdf

>

> atb

>

> Nigel

>

> On 06/11/2013 17:54, Andrew Sarangan wrote:

>

> Snip .....I am hoping someone can send me a small sample of unexpired

> Araldite

> 420 for comparative testing.

>

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phillik747

Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Birminham, AL USA

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Anyone who can spare a small sample of Araldite 420?

There is always Graco.



http://www.gracosupply.com/CSearchs.aspx?Search=epibond+420&CategoryID=0&ManufacturerID=0&SectionID=3&PriceRange=0&SortBy=1&PageSize=12&AndOr=AND&DisplayMode=List&SearchPartNumbersOnly=0



They have a small 50ml tube.



I have been told, like the other builders here, that the expiration date really doesn't mean anything. Just test it first.  My guess is that certified manufactures are required to adhere to non-expired items so this keeps the cash flow going in Huntsman's favor. 



Kyle

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_________________
Kyle
Europa Tri-gear (under construction)

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