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Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:59 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

<< Dennis.Kirby wrote:  I am looking for suggestions and recommendations for installing a new, larger-capacity fuel tank in my Mark-3 Classic. >>

 

 

Kolb Friends –

 

Thanks to all who responded to my Fuel Tank question!

 

I now have a few options to investigate.  Travis at Kolb tells me they still have the patterns to fabricate a one-piece aluminum tank (approx. 15 gal) for my Mark-III Classic, but they haven’t built one since the early-2000s.  (Seems like that could still be a popular option, for new kit buyers.)  Their metal-fab wizard Dennis Jackson could build it.  Would require cutting a few steel tubes to get it in – not that big a problem.  Am considering that option.

 

Thanks Boyd, for sending pictures and detailed descriptions of your Kolb-factory 16-gal tank, from the mid-1990s!

 

Rev Pike – your homemade above-the-cabin fiberglass tank fits nicely.  Sadly, I have no fiberglass skills or experience to build such a beauty.  So I’ll hafta pass on that possibility, for my Kolb.

 

John H – I’ve seen your custom 25-gal tank before in Miss P’fer (at Monument Valley).  Definitely  gives you enough gas – especially for your kind of flying.  But it’s more than I think I want for my Mark-3 … lookin’ more for 16 to 18 gallons capacity.  But your tip for doing a good job of slosh-coating the inside is well-taken!

 

Will let you all know how it turns out, when I make the choice!

 

Dennis K.

Mark-III / 912ul / stock plastic fuel jugs

 

 [quote][b]

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:32 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Hey Dennis, does the one from Travis install without cutting tubes? If so, maybe if I ordered one too, we could defray their costs by doubling the order

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:10 pm Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Sorry, just reread your post and see there is cutting involved. I'll have to find out exactly what needs cut before I would commit to that.



Dennis "Skid" RoweMk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA

On Oct 31, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:

[quote]Hey Dennis, does the one from Travis install without cutting tubes? If so, maybe if I ordered one too, we could defray their costs by doubling the order.



Dennis "Skid" RoweMk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA

On Oct 31, 2013, at 10:58 AM, "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/ENS" <Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil (Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.af.mil)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

<< Dennis.Kirby wrote:  I am looking for suggestions and recommendations for installing a new, larger-capacity fuel tank in my Mark-3 Classic. >>

 

 

Kolb Friends â€“

 

Thanks to all who responded to my Fuel Tank question!

 

I now have a few options to investigate.  Travis at Kolb tells me they still have the patterns to fabricate a one-piece aluminum tank (approx. 15 gal) for my Mark-III Classic, but they havenâ€™t built one since the early-2000s.  (Seems like that could still be a popular option, for new kit buyers.)  Their metal-fab wizard Dennis Jackson could build it.  Would require cutting a few steel tubes to get it in â€“ not that big a problem.  Am considering that option.

 

Thanks Boyd, for sending pictures and detailed descriptions of your Kolb-factory 16-gal tank, from the mid-1990s!

 

Rev Pike â€“ your homemade above-the-cabin fiberglass tank fits nicely.  Sadly, I have no fiberglass skills or experience to build such a beauty.  So Iâ€™ll hafta pass on that possibility, for my Kolb.

 

John H â€“ Iâ€™ve seen your custom 25-gal tank before in Miss Pâ€™fer (at Monument Valley).  Definitely  gives you enough gas â€“ especially for your kind of flying.  But itâ€™s more than I think I want for my Mark-3 â€¦ lookinâ€™ more for 16 to 18 gallons capacity.  But your tip for doing a good job of slosh-coating the inside is well-taken!

 

Will let you all know how it turns out, when I make the choice!

 

Dennis K.

Mark-III / 912ul / stock plastic fuel jugs

 

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[b]

awcbs

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 20
Location: kittanning, PA

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

_________________
AJ Waldor
MK3C 503
Phantom 503
Rans S-9 Chaos 503

pipercolt

Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Location: Randolph New York

Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Hey Dennis



I would also be interested in the larger tank from Kolb.  Keep me informed if you don't mind.



Thanks

Bob

johngilpin

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:08 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Gday Dennis,



I found a tank from Moeller that fit just perfectly behind the seat in a FireStar ll.

They have a really wide range of sizes and shapes.  They're made to be permanent below-deck fuel tanks for boats, so are very high quality with very good fittings.  

 I got mine from Amazon, free shipping.

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/





JG

 

  [quote][b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

JG Those tanks look good how much did the one you bought cost? I could not find any prices. thank you Chris



 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



 	  Quote: 	
		       

   From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com>

 To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 8:08 AM

 Subject: Re: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

  

 

Gday Dennis,



I found a tank from Moeller that fit just perfectly behind the seat in a FireStar ll.

They have a really wide range of sizes and shapes.  They're made to be permanent below-deck fuel tanks for boats, so are very high quality with very good fittings.  

 I got mine from Amazon, free shipping.

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/





JG

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  http://wwtp://www.buildersbooks.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mebuilthelp.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.homebuilthe.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mypilotstore.com/onics.com/contribution" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matro.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matttp://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://foru======================

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net) wrote:

 

<< … just reread your post and see there is cutting involved. I'll have to find out exactly what needs cut before I would commit to that.  Dennis "Skid" Rowe >>

 

 

bob.pipercolt(at)yahoo.com (bob.pipercolt(at)yahoo.com)  wrote:

 

<< would also be interested in the larger tank from Kolb.  Keep me informed if you don't mind. Thanks Bob >>

 

 

Denny, and Bob –

 

Travis told me that the Mark-III Xtra one-piece fuel tank is an option on that model, but is not retrofittable to the “Classic.”  Cages are different.  The patterns they still have at Kolb are for a tank they used to offer as an option for the original M3 in the days before the Xtra was conceived.  It was a $450 option in the late-1990s.  I believe they built it into the welded cage, and shipped it to you that way.  

 

For this retrofit, on a standard M3 cage, it appears you’ll have to cut the three 3/8” tubes that are just behind the seats to get this tank in.  Boyd (who has one of these factory tanks in his 1990s era Mark-III) says his is about 16 gallons.   The tank would sit on the same framework intended for the plastic jugs to sin on, and would have a “tunnel” hump in the center, as the tank straddles the aileron torque tube.

 

Last week, Travis said they could fab one up for me for about $950, plus shipping.  They would make it with all the proper orifice fittings (fuel fill, vent, outlet, etc.), an internal anti-slosh baffle, and with aluminum-angle mounting brackets.  If enough Kolb folks want these, maybe they could fabricate a batch of tanks, and be able to sell them a little cheaper.

 

Dennis K.

smime.p7s

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rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Thanks John,

Will be crawling all through my bird with a tape measure soon to see which one of these I could shoehorn in there.



Dennis "Skid" RoweMk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA

On Nov 1, 2013, at 8:08 AM, JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com (j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com)> wrote:

[quote]Gday Dennis,



I found a tank from Moeller that fit just perfectly behind the seat in a FireStar ll.

They have a really wide range of sizes and shapes.  They're made to be permanent below-deck fuel tanks for boats, so are very high quality with very good fittings.  

 I got mine from Amazon, free shipping.

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/





JG

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



	


[b]

johngilpin

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:43 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

The 14 gal one that I got cost about $159.00, which I thought was really good considering the quality.  Then found a filler neck with secure screw-in cap for another $20.  It was meant to be a thro-deck fitting but just cut off the big poly flange that was meant to seal at the deck.  The outlet connection is on top of the tank so can't leak fuel, an internal pipe feeds from the bottom.  There's also a fitting on the top for a breather.  Also built-in is a fuel level sender, so you only need to buy a gauge to to have a fuel gauge on panel.  



Lots better than the polyethylene jugs with rubber outlets that can be ripped out by hand......



JG

  [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:43 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

The 14 gal one that I got cost about $159.00>>

  

 What sort of weight change is there between the  metal and the plastic.?

  

 Any C of G problems?

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

gajindra(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:15 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

If you look up West Marine they carry the line of Moeller fuel tanks with pricing



 

Gary Jindra



     

   From: chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com>

 To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com"  <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 10:49 AM

 Subject: Re: Re: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

  

 

JG Those tanks look good how much did the one you bought cost? I could not find any prices. thank you Chris



 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



 	  Quote: 	
		       

   From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com>

 To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 8:08 AM

 Subject: Re: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

  

 

Gday Dennis,



I found a tank from Moeller that fit just perfectly behind the seat in a FireStar ll.

They have a really  wide range of sizes and shapes.  They're made to be permanent below-deck fuel tanks for boats, so are very high quality with very good fittings.  

 I got mine from Amazon, free shipping.

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/





JG

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  http://wwtp://www.buildersbooks.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mebuilthelp.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.homebuilthe.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mypilotstore.com/onics.com/contribution" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matro.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matttp://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://foru======================

	




 

 

 ref="http://www.buildersbooks.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">ht://www.homebuilthelp.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.hoilotstore.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mypilotstore.//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http:/w.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">htt 	




 

 

  

 [quote][b]

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:21 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

That sounds like a great tank and a good price the fact that they build boat tanks says a lot to me as I was a commercial fisherman for 31years and know how much trouble a rough sea can cause in a fuel tank. thanks Chris



 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



[quote]     

   From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com>

 To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 4:42 AM

 Subject: Re: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

  

 

The 14 gal one that I got cost about $159.00, which I thought was really good considering the quality.  Then found a filler neck with secure screw-in cap for another $20.  It was meant to be a thro-deck fitting but just cut off the big poly flange that was meant to seal at the deck.  The outlet connection is on top of the tank so can't  leak fuel, an internal pipe feeds from the bottom.  There's also a fitting on the top for a breather.  Also built-in is a fuel level sender, so you only need to buy a gauge to to have a fuel gauge on panel.  



Lots better than the polyethylene jugs with rubber outlets that can be ripped out by hand......



JG

   	  Quote: 	
		  http://w=   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<============

	




 

 

 [b]

h20maule(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:35 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

I have an 18 gallon plastic tank from a Searey if anyone is interested in that. I can send photos 

Daniel Myers 

Sent from my iPhone



On Nov 2, 2013, at 10:23 AM, "chris davis" <capedavis(at)yahoo.com (capedavis(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote]That sounds like a great tank and a good price the fact that they build boat tanks says a lot to me as I was a commercial fisherman for 31years and know how much trouble a rough sea can cause in a fuel tank. thanks Chris



 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly



 	  Quote: 	
		       

   From: JC Gilpin <j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com (j.gilpin(at)bigpond.com)>

 To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)> 

 Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 4:42 AM

 Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

  

 

The 14 gal one that I got cost about $159.00, which I thought was really good considering the quality.  Then found a filler neck with secure screw-in cap for another $20.  It was meant to be a thro-deck fitting but just cut off the big poly flange that was meant to seal at the deck.  The outlet connection is on top of the tank so can't  leak fuel, an internal pipe feeds from the bottom.  There's also a fitting on the top for a breather.  Also built-in is a fuel level sender, so you only need to buy a gauge to to have a fuel gauge on panel.  



Lots better than the polyethylene jugs with rubber outlets that can be ripped out by hand......



JG

   	  Quote: 	
		  http://w=   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List<============

	




 

 

 	


   

 [quote][b]

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 6:47 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

I bought a Moeller 12 gallon for my gyroplane... I was very impressed... it's quite solid.   I got mine from Bass Pro Shop, on-line.



  -- Robert



 



On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:20 AM, chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com (capedavis(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] That sounds like a great tank and a good price the fact that they build boat tanks says a lot to me as I was a commercial fisherman for 31years and know how much trouble a rough sea can cause in a fuel tank. thanks Chris

 

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly





[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:42 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Robert,

what gyro do you have? I'm thinking about one.

Frank Goodnight



Sent from my iPad



On Nov 2, 2013, at 9:47 AM, Robert Laird <rlaird(at)cavediver.com (rlaird(at)cavediver.com)> wrote:

[quote]I bought a Moeller 12 gallon for my gyroplane... I was very impressed... it's quite solid.   I got mine from Bass Pro Shop, on-line.



  -- Robert



 



On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:20 AM, chris davis <capedavis(at)yahoo.com (capedavis(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   That sounds like a great tank and a good price the fact that they build boat tanks says a lot to me as I was a commercial fisherman for 31years and know how much trouble a rough sea can cause in a fuel tank. thanks Chris

 

 

Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly









	
   

[b]

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 12:01 pm Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Frank Goodnight <frank.goodnight(at)att.net (frank.goodnight(at)att.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Robert,

what gyro do you have? I'm thinking about one.

Frank Goodnight

	


 

I had a Gyrobee...  a really sweet ride.  Had it for a year or so, but had to sell it due to personal financial issues.  My plan, though, is to get another one... a 2-seater.  I loved it!     

 



  -- Robert

do not archive

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

johngilpin

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:11 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

 	  Quote: 	
		   What sort of weight change is there between the metal and the plastic.? Any C of G problems?



Don't know about the wright of the metal tank, but I don't think there's be a significant difference in CofG, since the tank is near the CofG.



In my case I really needed a change, cause the Cof G of my aircraft was way aft when I bought it.  Needed a lot of forward stick to keep it level.  I weigh only 170lbs and the previous owner was maybe 100 lbs heavier, so it was way out of balance with me.  The original two 5 gal tanks were in the regular place, behind the center of lift.  I worked out that this new tank, in place of the pax seat in the FSll, right behind the pilot seat, worked out just right.  Now it flies hands-off just perfectly.

 

JG

	


  [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:26 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

Hi JG,

  

 I forgot that you do not have a limiting weight to  define the machine as an ultralight as we do in the UK

  

 But I would suggest that you do an accurate `weight  and balance` calculation after you have the tank fitted. "Not much change  because its near the C of G is not really good enough."

 If she stands on her tail and you can`t get the  nose down you may wish you had done so.

  

 If you are a real lightweight it may be worth  carrying  some lead. I fixed some in the nose of my Xtra (Make sure it IS  fixed.) I cut sheet lead into approx 4"X4" squares until I had the weight I  required. Drilled a couple of holes through the pile of sheets and fixed then in  the nose as far forward as I could easily work through the fibreglass. I put a  piece of ply between the lead and the nose cone to spread the load and used big  washers on the outside for the same reason.

  

 When I was gliding and the gliders were being used  by club members of different weights the women, who tended to be the light  weights had their own cushions with a piece of lead inside. It worked but becaus  e the pilot tended to be near the C of G the weight required was sometimes  large. Better to have a little weight well forward.

  

 Hope this is useful.

  

 Pat

  

   [quote][b]

johngilpin

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:01 am Post subject: Larger, one-piece fuel tank for a Mark-3

I know my weight and balance.  A couple of pounds at a moment arm of one foot from the existing CofG isn't going to make a difference that you can detect in balance.  A couple of pounds out at the tailwheel is serious..... 



I prefer to carry water instead of the dead load of lead.  So I have a hydration bag full of water packed up in the nose cone.  Could be very welcome if stranded somewhere.....

JG

 

  [quote][b]

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