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clivesutton
Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH
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 Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:21 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Gents (and Ladies),
During this years maintenance, I'm considering putting a new fuel valve into my flying Europa to replace the 6749 valve - which I suspect is weeping a bit (responsible for the cockpit fuel smell problem?). Does anyone have any advice/experience of using the Andair range of selectors fitted to the upper horizontal surface of the tunnel - just aft of the instrument panel? Not sure in particular if at that height (about 350mm higher than the tank outlets) it may cause problems - and if to overcome that, if anyone has used a remote selector connected by a shaft to the valve sited closer to the fuselage floor? Soonest replies appreciated.
Clive Sutton
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:56 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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On 12/04/2013 02:21 PM, gtagr wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone have any advice/experience of using the Andair
range of selectors fitted to the upper horizontal surface of the
tunnel - just aft of the instrument panel? Not sure in particular if
at that height (about 350mm higher than the tank outlets) it may
cause problems - and if to overcome that, if anyone has used a remote
selector connected by a shaft to the valve sited closer to the
fuselage floor? Soonest replies appreciated.
|
I have such an Andair selector (like many others), and indeed mounted it
quite low with an extension shaft to the selector knob. I'm very happy
with the setup.
The Europa supplied fuel valve is a piece of junk if you ask me, never
installed it (like so many other supplied pieces). I got the impression
it is for the water supply in the house and never intended for fuel, let
alone for installation in an aircraft. It is heavy as well.
Frans
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kheindl(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:50 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Hi Frans,
My Andair fuel valve is mounted on the fuselage floor, and the selector is on top of the tunnel at the very back. If I remember correctly, I obtained an extension piece from Andair.
Karl
| Quote: | Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 14:55:28 +0100
From: frans(at)privatepilots.nl
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: fuel tank selectors?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl>
On 12/04/2013 02:21 PM, gtagr wrote:
> Does anyone have any advice/experience of using the Andair
> range of selectors fitted to the upper horizontal surface of the
> tunnel - just aft of the instrument panel? Not sure in particular if
> at that height (about 350mm higher than the tank outlets) it may
> cause problems - and if to overcome that, if anyone has used a remote
> selector connected by a shaft to the valve sited closer to the
> fuselage floor? Soonest replies appreciated.
I have such an Andair selector (like many others), and indeed mounted it
quite low with an extension shaft to the selector knob. I'm very happy
with the setup.
The Europa supplied fuel valve is a piece of junk if you ask me, never
installed it (like so many other supplied pieces). I got the impression
it is for the water supply in the house and never intended for fuel, let
alone for installation in an aircraft. It is heavy as well.
Frans
>=====================
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[quote][b]
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 7:22 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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On 4 Dec 2013, at 13:21, gtagr wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone have any advice/experience of using the Andair range of selectors fitted to the upper horizontal surface of the tunnel - just aft of the instrument panel? Not sure in particular if at that height (about 350mm higher than the tank outlets) it may cause problems - and if to overcome that, if anyone has used a remote selector connected by a shaft to the valve sited closer to the fuselage floor?
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Clive - I installed my Andair selector before I bonded in the cockpit module (which is probably a lot easier than doing it as an upgrade to an existing installation).
You can see some of the pictures of my installation at;
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/fuel_valve_trial.php
and
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/fuel_pipes.php
and other pictures nearby in the sequence.
I haven't yet had official approval of this specific arrangement, but I believe it is quite similar to what some others have done.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
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churchy
Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 8:02 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Hi Rowland - in your installation using metal fuel pipes instead of rubber hoses, where are your fuel filters - aren't they installed between the tank and the fuel selector when you use rubber hoses or have I misunderstood the build manual?
Richard CC
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On 4 Dec 2013, at 15:21, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4 Dec 2013, at 13:21, gtagr wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any advice/experience of using the Andair range of selectors fitted to the upper horizontal surface of the tunnel - just aft of the instrument panel? Not sure in particular if at that height (about 350mm higher than the tank outlets) it may cause problems - and if to overcome that, if anyone has used a remote selector connected by a shaft to the valve sited closer to the fuselage floor?
Clive - I installed my Andair selector before I bonded in the cockpit module (which is probably a lot easier than doing it as an upgrade to an existing installation).
You can see some of the pictures of my installation at;
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/fuel_valve_trial.php
and
http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/fuel_pipes.php
and other pictures nearby in the sequence.
I haven't yet had official approval of this specific arrangement, but I believe it is quite similar to what some others have done.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:09 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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On 4 Dec 2013, at 16:02, Sky Mail wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Rowland - in your installation using metal fuel pipes instead of rubber hoses, where are your fuel filters - aren't they installed between the tank and the fuel selector when you use rubber hoses or have I misunderstood the build manual?
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Richard - sorry, I guess I should have explained that. After considerable thought, I've decided not to use the filters (as supplied in the kit and described in the manual) between the tank and the selector. I understand other aircraft have been cleared to fly with a similar arrangement to mine. (I think I've heard that the prototype Europa fuel system originally used a single filter downstream of the selector and this was only changed to separate ones because it could block so easily.)
I'm using an Andair gascolator to be mounted under the baggage area near the electric fuel pump. It provides better filtering than the inline filters supplied in the kits, but nonetheless is more resistant to blockage by debris. I recognise it presents a potential risk as a single point of failure, but in contrast to the inline filters it offers easy checking (and particularly cleaning if necessary) before every flight.
Another reason for discarding the supplied filters was that I couldn't find an elegant way of interconnecting them with the aluminium piping.
in friendship
Rowland
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk
| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson Facebook: Rowland Carson
| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson
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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:46 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Frans
Why do you say "the Europa supplied fuel valve is a piece of junk"? I
am not questioning it, just trying to understand. The same valve is
also listed in the Aircraftspruce catalog, so I can only presume that
it is an aircraft worthy valve. I agree that it looks like a backyard
water faucet, but besides the appearance are there any other factors
that makes is less suitable?
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl> wrote:
| Quote: |
On 12/04/2013 02:21 PM, gtagr wrote:
> Does anyone have any advice/experience of using the Andair
> range of selectors fitted to the upper horizontal surface of the
> tunnel - just aft of the instrument panel? Not sure in particular if
> at that height (about 350mm higher than the tank outlets) it may
> cause problems - and if to overcome that, if anyone has used a remote
> selector connected by a shaft to the valve sited closer to the
> fuselage floor? Soonest replies appreciated.
I have such an Andair selector (like many others), and indeed mounted it
quite low with an extension shaft to the selector knob. I'm very happy
with the setup.
The Europa supplied fuel valve is a piece of junk if you ask me, never
installed it (like so many other supplied pieces). I got the impression
it is for the water supply in the house and never intended for fuel, let
alone for installation in an aircraft. It is heavy as well.
Frans
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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Hash: SHA1
On 12/13/2013 04:45 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
| Quote: | Why do you say "the Europa supplied fuel valve is a piece of junk"?
I am not questioning it, just trying to understand. The same valve
is also listed in the Aircraftspruce catalog, so I can only presume
that it is an aircraft worthy valve. I agree that it looks like a
backyard water faucet, but besides the appearance are there any
other factors that makes is less suitable?
|
It is not made of light weight materials, it has no "locking feature",
and if I remember correctly one even has to modify it. "Piece of junk"
is maybe exaggarated but at the time of classification I was
frustrated how much I spent on kit-parts that I never used because of
the inferior quality or suitability for something that was going to be
a "once-in-a-lifetime" project of proud. And I never thought it would
be in the Aircrafspruce catalog but assumed it was indeed a backyard
water faucet.
Frans
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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Mine has functioned fine since 2004. I believe some people have had problems with them getting tight over time.
[quote][b]
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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:51 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Aircraftspruce also sells a big red handle (similar to Andair) to
replace the stock handle. Surprisingly this handle costs than the
valve itself. It seems this is the setup used in all RV aircraft.
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Frans Veldman <frans(at)privatepilots.nl> wrote:
| Quote: |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
On 12/13/2013 04:45 PM, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> Why do you say "the Europa supplied fuel valve is a piece of junk"?
> I am not questioning it, just trying to understand. The same valve
> is also listed in the Aircraftspruce catalog, so I can only presume
> that it is an aircraft worthy valve. I agree that it looks like a
> backyard water faucet, but besides the appearance are there any
> other factors that makes is less suitable?
It is not made of light weight materials, it has no "locking feature",
and if I remember correctly one even has to modify it. "Piece of junk"
is maybe exaggarated but at the time of classification I was
frustrated how much I spent on kit-parts that I never used because of
the inferior quality or suitability for something that was going to be
a "once-in-a-lifetime" project of proud. And I never thought it would
be in the Aircrafspruce catalog but assumed it was indeed a backyard
water faucet.
Frans
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dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:03 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Mine too, and that is since 1997 and now at 2040 hours (and I didn't replace anything else in what I thought was an excellent kit). (But what do I know!!!)
Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel
On 13 Dec 2013, at 17:21, Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com (paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Mine has functioned fine since 2004. I believe some people have had problems with them getting tight over time.
[b]
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max8992
Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:22 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Mine is 11 years old (2002). I have gas smelt in the cockpit when open it after few days and still can’t find a solution. I will repalce the pipe between the cap filler and the tank with an appropriate pipe and the selector by an Andair and … let you know.
Max Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de David Watts
Envoyé : vendredi 13 décembre 2013 19:03
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: fuel tank selectors?
Mine too, and that is since 1997 and now at 2040 hours (and I didn't replace anything else in what I thought was an excellent kit). (But what do I know!!!)
Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel
On 13 Dec 2013, at 17:21, Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com (paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Mine has functioned fine since 2004. I believe some people have had problems with them getting tight over time.
      -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --          (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)  November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on |
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[quote][b]
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Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH |
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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wow.... 2040hrs! Is that the highest time Europa?
I am curious as to how the control linkages / system has held up over those many hours. Is there much increased free play?
Cheers and thx,
Pete
A239
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 1:02 PM, David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net (dg.watts(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
[quote]Mine too, and that is since 1997 and now at 2040 hours (and I didn't replace anything else in what I thought was an excellent kit). (But what do I know!!!)
Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel
On 13 Dec 2013, at 17:21, Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com (paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Mine has functioned fine since 2004. I believe some people have had problems with them getting tight over time.
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[b]
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dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:19 am Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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I do not have the highest houred Europa, as I know of one other with more and there may be others.
As for control play, there is no more now than there was at the end of the build although there are a couple of jobs that I have had to do along the way
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: fuel tank selectors? |
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Max
if you have the cobra filler it may have a misshapen moulding flash behind the
bottom hose joint. If the moulding flash is not smooth the hose won't seal and will smell.
Graham
From: Max Cointe (Free) <mcointe(at)free.fr>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, 13 December 2013, 18:21
Subject: RE: fuel tank selectors?
Mine is 11 years old (2002). I have gas smelt in the cockpit when open it after few days and still can’t find a solution. I will repalce the pipe between the cap filler and the tank with an appropriate pipe and the selector by an Andair and … let you know.
Max Cointe
mcointe(at)free.fr (mcointe(at)free.fr)
F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear
Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours
F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S
Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures
De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de David Watts
Envoyé : vendredi 13 décembre 2013 19:03
À : europa-list(at)matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: fuel tank selectors?
Mine too, and that is since 1997 and now at 2040 hours (and I didn't replace anything else in what I thought was an excellent kit). (But what do I know!!!)
Dave Watts G-BXDY Classic Monowheel
On 13 Dec 2013, at 17:21, Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com (paul.the.aviator(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Mine has functioned fine since 2004. I believe some people have had problems with them getting tight over time.
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