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uuccio(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:43 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Hi Kitfoxers
I did a test flight yesterday (Kitfox IV rebuild) and the plane would not stay on the same course and required lots of left stick. If I let go of the stick and keep the ball centered, the plane banks to the right. Fuel contents in each wing were approximately equal.
On the ground with the plane level I measured the angle of each wing and found that the right wing has a slightly lower angle of attack than the left wing - about 0.5 degrees.
Is this enough of a difference in your opinion to cause so much difference? What else could be the cause? (When I have more time I am going to go through and check the dihedral and wing washout as well but I'm curious wether I am on the right track here).
Sacha
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:37 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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On 12/9/2013 1:42 PM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | | Is this enough of a difference in your opinion to cause so much difference? |
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I'm going to say definitely. Really, you have only a few choices, plus some also-rans. Choices:
- Wing twist different - noted.
- Wing weight different. Check using scales under the mains. This happens occasionally in flight when one tank drains while the other is full.
- Flaperon rigging off. If one flaperon is low this will drag that wing back. You'll center the ball with the rudder which will cause that wing to lift, resulting in a feeling of miss-rigging.
Also rans:
- Twisted fuselage causing one wing to lead.
- Really bad wing rigging causing one wing to lead. (Wings not perpendicular to fuselage.)
- Accidentally put wing extension on only one side.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote][b]
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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michaelgibbs(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:06 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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I had the same problem with my Model IV when I first started flying it. I ended up adjusting the rod ends, tightening one 1/2 turn then loosening the other 1/2 turn. First one wing then the other. I had to go through several iterations to get it right.
Mike G.
Phoenix, AZ
Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster, Series 6
| Quote: | On Dec 9, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Kitfoxers
I did a test flight yesterday (Kitfox IV rebuild) and the plane would not stay on the same course and required lots of left stick. If I let go of the stick and keep the ball centered, the plane banks to the right. Fuel contents in each wing were approximately equal.
On the ground with the plane level I measured the angle of each wing and found that the right wing has a slightly lower angle of attack than the left wing - about 0.5 degrees.
Is this enough of a difference in your opinion to cause so much difference? What else could be the cause? (When I have more time I am going to go through and check the dihedral and wing washout as well but I'm curious wether I am on the right track here).
Sacha
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uuccio(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:14 am Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Guy/Mike,
Thanks for that. I’ve recently had to re-rig the flapperon control bellcrank (I came to the conclusion it was clocked incorrectly at build time, see previous posts back in June) and maybe I also need to do some adjusting of the rods. I’ll start by re-checking the wing angles first.
Sacha
PS. Guy, just noticed you’re in KRMN. I did my PPL in KSEE in 2011. Was hoping to return there sometime next year to do some more flying, if I do I’ll try and look you up if that’s ok.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, 10 December, 2013 02:37
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing
On 12/9/2013 1:42 PM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: | | Is this enough of a difference in your opinion to cause so much difference? |
I'm going to say definitely. Really, you have only a few choices, plus some also-rans. Choices:- Wing twist different - noted.
- Wing weight different. Check using scales under the mains. This happens occasionally in flight when one tank drains while the other is full.
- Flaperon rigging off. If one flaperon is low this will drag that wing back. You'll center the ball with the rudder which will cause that wing to lift, resulting in a feeling of miss-rigging.
Also rans:- Twisted fuselage causing one wing to lead.
- Really bad wing rigging causing one wing to lead. (Wings not perpendicular to fuselage.)
- Accidentally put wing extension on only one side.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
| Quote: | | </ -- Please Support Your Lists This Month nbsp; (And Get Some AWESOME FREE November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click below to find out more Free Incentive Gifts AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com<www.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comwww.mypilotstore.comwww.mrrace.com |
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:41 am Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Sacha,
I think you might have hit on the problem. My left wing is slightly heavy.
I tried to correct it by flattening the right wing, but conventional wisdom
is to tighten the angle of attack on the heavy wing. I have yet to do that,
though.
Lowell
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sacha" <uuccio(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 1:42 PM
To: "Kitfox List" <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Heavy right wing
| Quote: |
Hi Kitfoxers
I did a test flight yesterday (Kitfox IV rebuild) and the plane would not
stay on the same course and required lots of left stick. If I let go of
the stick and keep the ball centered, the plane banks to the right. Fuel
contents in each wing were approximately equal.
On the ground with the plane level I measured the angle of each wing and
found that the right wing has a slightly lower angle of attack than the
left wing - about 0.5 degrees.
Is this enough of a difference in your opinion to cause so much
difference? What else could be the cause? (When I have more time I am
going to go through and check the dihedral and wing washout as well but
I'm curious wether I am on the right track here).
Sacha
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:03 am Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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On 12/10/2013 12:02 AM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: | | PS. Guy, just noticed you’re in KRMN. I did my PPL in KSEE in 2011. Was hoping to return there sometime next year to do some more flying, if I do I’ll try and look you up if that’s ok. |
Do that. If you come late enough next year I'll be flying too! Otherwise I can take you for a glider flight.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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michaellogan41(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:34 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Guy,
Do you commute all the way from California to Stafford, Virginia to fly? Or did Sacha mis-type the airport designator?
Mike Logan
VA42, 2.5 miles from KRMN in Stafford, VA
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:03 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing
On 12/10/2013 12:02 AM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: |
PS. Guy, just noticed you’re in KRMN. I did my PPL in KSEE in 2011. Was hoping to return there sometime next year to do some more flying, if I do I’ll try and look you up if that’s ok. |
Do that. If you come late enough next year I'll be flying too! Otherwise I can take you for a glider flight.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><![endif]> | Quote: | | -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided |
012345678901234567890123456789 | Quote: | | -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- |
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[quote][b]
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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Oops, i meant KRNM!
On Dec 10, 2013, at 23:34, "Mike Logan" <michaellogan41(at)gmail.com (michaellogan41(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> Clean false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE <![endif]--> <![endif]-->/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Guy,
Do you commute all the way from California to Stafford, Virginia to fly? Or did Sacha mis-type the airport designator?
Mike Logan
VA42, 2.5 miles from KRMN in Stafford, VA
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:03 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing
On 12/10/2013 12:02 AM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: |
PS. Guy, just noticed you’re in KRMN. I did my PPL in KSEE in 2011. Was hoping to return there sometime next year to do some more flying, if I do I’ll try and look you up if that’s ok. |
Do that. If you come late enough next year I'll be flying too! Otherwise I can take you for a glider flight.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too. | Quote: | | (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: |
012345678901234567890123456
7
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Well, I would. But no, the farthest east I've been with my Fox is Ft. Worth. I'm pretty sure he really meant KRNM, which is Ramona, CA.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 12/10/2013 2:34 PM, Mike Logan wrote: [quote] <![endif]--> Clean false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE <![endif]--> <![endif]--> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Guy,
Do you commute all the way from California to Stafford, Virginia to fly? Or did Sacha mis-type the airport designator?
Mike Logan
VA42, 2.5 miles from KRMN in Stafford, VA
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:03 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing
On 12/10/2013 12:02 AM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: |
PS. Guy, just noticed you’re in KRMN. I did my PPL in KSEE in 2011. Was hoping to return there sometime next year to do some more flying, if I do I’ll try and look you up if that’s ok. |
Do that. If you come late enough next year I'll be flying too! Otherwise I can take you for a glider flight.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too. | Quote: | | (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) the Contribution link below to find out more about this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided by: |
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
7 [b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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michaellogan41(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Well, if you ever wander way back east near KRMN, I am at Dogwood Airpark (VA42) just 2.5 miles from KRMN. Drop in and visit.
Mike
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 6:51 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing
Well, I would. But no, the farthest east I've been with my Fox is Ft. Worth. I'm pretty sure he really meant KRNM, which is Ramona, CA.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.
On 12/10/2013 2:34 PM, Mike Logan wrote: | Quote: |
Guy,
Do you commute all the way from California to Stafford, Virginia to fly? Or did Sacha mis-type the airport designator?
Mike Logan
VA42, 2.5 miles from KRMN in Stafford, VA
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2013 2:03 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Heavy right wing
On 12/10/2013 12:02 AM, Sacha wrote: | Quote: |
PS. Guy, just noticed you’re in KRMN. I did my PPL in KSEE in 2011. Was hoping to return there sometime next year to do some more flying, if I do I’ll try and look you up if that’s ok. |
Do that. If you come late enough next year I'll be flying too! Otherwise I can take you for a glider flight.
Guy Buchanan
Ramona, CA
Kitfox IV-1200 / 912-S / Warp 3cs / 500 hrs. and grounded
Now a glider pilot, too.<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><![endif]>0123456789 | Quote: | | (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) |
0 | Quote: | | (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) |
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[quote][b]
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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:52 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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<![if !supportLists]>Ø <![endif]>Do that. If you come late enough next year I'll be flying too! Otherwise I can take you for a glider flight.
Thanks. I prefer sailboats to motorboats, so something tells me that I’m gonna like gliding.
sacha
Do not archive[quote] [b]
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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: Heavy right wing |
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Sacha,
I think you might have hit on the problem. My left wing is slightly heavy.
I tried to correct it by flattening the right wing, but conventional wisdom is to tighten the angle of attack on the heavy wing. I have yet to do that, though.
Lowell
Lowell,
I did a preliminary investigation and it looks like the washout is ok on my right wing, but the left wing has practically no washout (so the angle of incidence at the tip of the left wing is quite a bit larger than that at the tip of the right wing), which would explain the heavy right wing.
Regards,
Sacha
By the way, (I'm CC-ing John McBean here) it looks like there is a misprint in the manual "Classic IV Manual - 2003 later", Rev. A, Section D, Page 23, Figure D-4 "Dihedral Adjustment" mentions the Rear Spar, but the text on p. 22, number 11, says to adjust the Front Spar. It seems to me that the text is correct, maybe John can shed some light on this.
[quote][b]
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