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Using French land as an airfield?

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:43 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Friends,



I've an ambition to buy land in France and build a house.  



In the UK we have a '30-day rule' that says you can use any land you own for any use (including an airfield) providing you use it for not more than 30 days a year for that purpose.  If you do, you'd need planning permission - which would be tortuous and in the case of an airfield application, almost certainly unsuccessful.  



What are the rules in France for turning land you own into an airstrip?  



Could our French colleagues let us know?  Perhaps there is some official route to take?



(PS, I'm aware of the airpark schemes in France but don't want to go that route due to annual cost)



?



Regards,

Clive Sutton

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:27 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Clive, It has no relevance to your query, but I thought 

the UK rule was something like you can land a plane in a 

farmer's field for up to 30 times in any month without 

needing to have planning permission as an airfield.

Regards, David

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 03:43:40 -0800

  "gtagr" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<clive.maf(at)googlemail.com>

 

Friends,

 

 I've an ambition to buy land in France and build a 

house.  

 

 In the UK we have a '30-day rule' that says you can use 

any land you own for any use (including an airfield) 

providing you use it for not more than 30 days a year for 

that purpose.  If you do, you'd need planning permission 

- which would be tortuous and in the case of an airfield 

application, almost certainly unsuccessful.  

 

 What are the rules in France for turning land you own 

into an airstrip?  

 

 Could our French colleagues let us know?  Perhaps there 

is some official route to take?

 

 (PS, I'm aware of the airpark schemes in France but 

don't want to go that route due to annual cost)

 

 ?

 

 Regards,

 

 

 Clive Sutton

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415810#415810

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Un/Subscription,

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Hi David,



I hope all well and Happy Christmas



Yes, maybe my wording could be better;  As I understand it, as a UK landowner you can use (land your a/c) your own land for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr without getting planning permission.  If a farmer grants permissions for that to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself), no need for planning permission.  More than 30 days and you need a planning application - and you can guess how likely getting that granted that is going to be . . .



More here;  

http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/land-usage.asp



regards,

Clive.



--

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 388
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Using French land as an airfield?

"As I understand it, as a UK landowner you can use (land your a/c) your own land for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr without getting planning permission. If a farmer grants permissions for that to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself), no need for planning permission. More than 30 days and you need a planning application - and you can guess how likely getting that granted that is going to be . . ."



In the UK, if the landowner keeps a log of all aircraft movements (his own and others) for 10 years and the local council doesn't get complaints during that period, the landowner can then apply for change of land use. The council can't refuse, but of course different (probably higher) rates will apply.



On each of the 28 days throughout any year, there can be many aircraft take-offs and landings involving many different aircraft, but each such day of multiple movements would still only count as one day. Better have friendly neighbours, though.



Sorry, I can't help with France.

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Sounds like (thanks to a recent Federal supreme court decision) that landowners here in Canada have it very good: All one needs to to do is land a plane on your field, and voila!  you have an instant unregistered aerodrome which is regulated under Federal law - and the local municipality can't do a darn thing about it (assuming your field approaches does not violate minimums over populated areas). The only recourse they have is to tax it as a commercial enterprise if they can justify the classification.

  



Now..... I just need to win the lottery so I can afford to  purchase my 100acres 



Cheers,

Pete



A239



On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk (jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:

  [quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk (jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk)>

   

 "As I understand it, as a UK landowner you can use (land your a/c) your own land for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr without getting planning permission. If a farmer grants permissions for that to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself), no need for planning permission. More than 30 days and you need a planning application - and you can guess how likely getting that granted that is going to be . . ."

   

 In the UK, if the landowner keeps a log of all aircraft movements (his own and others) for 10 years and the local council doesn't get complaints during that period, the landowner can then apply for change of land use. The council can't refuse, but of course different (probably higher) rates will apply.

   

 On each of the 28 days throughout any year, there can be many aircraft take-offs and landings involving many different aircraft, but each such day of multiple movements would still only count as one day. Better have friendly neighbours, though.

   

 Sorry, I can't help with France.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415820#415820

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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europajimkelly(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:48 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Hi Clive,                 I lived in Brittany for 10 years my experience is such that the planning permission for almost anything is more relaxed than here in the U.K.  Tip, introduce yourself to the local Maire and keep him/her on your social list and you can't go wrong.

 



Best wishes

Jim 

G-BWEG



On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Clives email <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com (clive.maf(at)googlemail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "Clives email" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com (clive.maf(at)googlemail.com)>

  

 Hi David,

 

 I hope all well and Happy Christmas

 

 Yes, maybe my wording could be better;  As I understand it, as a UK landowner you can use (land your a/c) your own land for 30 (specifically 28 days) days/yr without getting planning permission.  If a farmer grants permissions for that to you (or as a flying Farmer uses it himself), no need for planning permission.  More than 30 days and you need a planning application - and you can guess how likely getting that granted that is going to be . . .

  

 More here;

 http://www.uklanddirectory.org.uk/land-usage.asp

 

 regards,

 

 

 Clive.

 

 --

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Using French land as an airfield?

Clive,

There is no such 28 day rule in France. If you want to use your own land as an airstrip, there are two possibilities: if you are flying a ULM (similar to the UK Microlight category) you can land in your backyard all year round without asking permission to anybody. Obviously the Europa is not in this category. As an aircraft, it can land only on a registered airfield. So the way to go is to get your field approved as a private airfield. I did some research and found the attached document. Sorry it is in french. It looks very simple but I believe it is more difficult in reality. 

Remi

F-PGKL

Creation AD privÃ©.doc

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:58 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Hello Remi,

  

 Many thanks for this - I'll study

  

 Best regards,

  

  

 Clive.

  

 On 19 December 2013 08:24, Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>

 

Clive,

There is no such 28 day rule in France. If you want to use your own land as an airstrip, there are two possibilities: if you are flying a ULM (similar to the UK Microlight category) you can land in your backyard all year round without asking permission to anybody. Obviously the Europa is not in this category. As an aircraft, it can land only on a registered airfield. So the way to go is to get your field approved as a private airfield. I did some research and found the attached document. Sorry it is in french. It looks very simple but I believe it is more difficult in reality.

 Remi

F-PGKL





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415845#415845



 

Attachments:



http://forums.matronics.com/====

 he Contribution link below to find out more about

 * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com

 www.mypilotstorem/" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com

  http:/r generous support!

 ronics List Features Navigator to browse

 s.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ==============



	


-- 

 Clive Sutton, CEng

  [quote][b]

clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: Using French land as an airfield?

Hello again Remi,

  

 I took the liberty of using google translate to translate that document into English - for the benefit of board readers.  A few key points emerge for me:

  

 1) Private aerodromes under French jurisdiction are for personal use only, cannot be marked, or use charged for, in any way.

 2) Cannot be used until physical preparation and authorisation documentation are completed

 3) Prefect of the department (i assume this means eg of department 56 - Morbihan) can by exception also use it in the public interest

 4) Once use is authorised, fixed conditions and limitations will apply

  

 Seems a somewhat better arrangement than in the UK - though no idea how long the application to use might take to get processed/authorised

  

 regards,

  

 Clive.

  

 "CHAPTER III: AERODROMES A PRIVATE USE .

Version in force at December 19, 2013

 Article D233 -1



Aerodromes are considered private use aerodromes by a natural or legal person in private law for his own benefit or that of its employees and guests use.

 

Article D233 -2



The application for authorization is submitted in quadruplicate to the prefect of the department in which the aerodrome is located , accompanied by a file whose composition will be determined by ministerial decree.

 

It is issued receipt of the request.



The decision to grant or refuse the prefect is taken by unmotivated after the official notice of the territorially competent civil aviation stopped.

 

It must take place within thirty days after the issuance of the receipt, unless the warden is required to refer the Minister for Civil Aviation , in accordance with Article D. 233-3 . In this case, the time limit for its decision prefect is extended to ninety days .

 

If the prefect did not communicate its decision within the prescribed period, the authorization shall be deemed granted.

 

The prefect reports to the Minister responsible for civil aviation authorizations granted by sending a copy of the application and, where applicable, the authorization order .

 Article D233 -3



Orders of the Minister of Civil Aviation taken in agreement with the Minister of the Interior , the Minister of armies and the Minister of Economy and Finance shall designate the areas within which the creation of an aerodrome private use must be subject to the prior approval of the Minister responsible for civil aviation.

 

Article D233 -4



Airfields for private use may not be marked or identified .



 If the authorization holder wishes to install aids to air , visual or radio or any other device aeronautical telecommunication navigation , it is required to take the approval of the Minister of Civil Aviation and comply with regulations in force, both for the installation of these aids and devices for their use.

 Article D233 -5



People who have been authorized to create an airfield for private use can use it when it is finished, without having to seek authorization for placing in service . However, they must inform the prefect to allow the exercise of control under section D. 211-4 .

 

Article D233 -6



The decree authorizing the creation of the aerodrome fixed the conditions under which it will be used. The order may specify that the aerodrome including temporary or seasonal use or for permanent airfields that the use will be exceptionally closed some days.

 

Article D233 -7



It is forbidden for people who have created an airfield for private use to receive any remuneration for the use of their aerodrome by the people they admit to using them.

 

Article D233 -8



The prefect may, with the consent of the owner , allow the exceptional use of an airfield for private use developments aircraft constituting a public event regularly authorized under Article R. 131-3 .

 

If the airport has not previously been the subject of an authorization, the order authorizing its use will be taken after consultation with the staff of the territorially competent civil aviation and will authorize for a limited period than the event."

 



 On 19 December 2013 08:24, Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr (air.guerner(at)orange.fr)>

 

Clive,

There is no such 28 day rule in France. If you want to use your own land as an airstrip, there are two possibilities: if you are flying a ULM (similar to the UK Microlight category) you can land in your backyard all year round without asking permission to anybody. Obviously the Europa is not in this category. As an aircraft, it can land only on a registered airfield. So the way to go is to get your field approved as a private airfield. I did some research and found the attached document. Sorry it is in french. It looks very simple but I believe it is more difficult in reality.

 Remi

F-PGKL





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415845#415845



 

Attachments:



http://forums.matronics.com/====

 he Contribution link below to find out more about

 * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com

 www.mypilotstorem/" target="_blank">www.mrrace.com

  http:/r generous support!

 ronics List Features Navigator to browse

 s.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

 ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ==============



	


-- 

 Clive Sutton, CEng

  [quote][b]

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Using French land as an airfield?

Clive,

I will visit you with my Europa when the field is approved, provided you give me permission!

Remi

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