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rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk
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 Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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HI,
To those who have converted their leading edges to fully wet can you please advise what changes you made to the structure, if any, and if anyone has had the final result structurally tested/analysed? I know here in Oz a few people have added extra tankage to the outboard leading edge (15Gal and that has been structurally tested) but I know of no one who has gone for the full 30 Gal.
John Nys obviously did this with the first customer built RV-10 but he appears to have disappeared without trace.
With best wishes and Seasons Greetings,
Rodger
In sun drenched Perth, WA
[quote][b]
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Extended Tankage |
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Rodger, I was in Perth back in March of 2011 - beautiful place.
Anyway, I feel I should comment on the extended tanks. I've seen a lot of them, and I got the two dollar tour of John's right after he flew it to Sun 'n fun.
I would NOT do it. It was told to me that you need to be "very careful" taking off with a full load of fuel, and that you definitely had to have them empty before landing.
As far as the "tip tank" approach, I only know of people putting 7 or 8 gallons per side. Frankly, I wouldn't even do that. I have seen one that had the tip tank very close to the existing tank, to minimize the moment arm.
I'm very happy with a 60 gallon limit - so is my bladder. Just stop for gas.
John
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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:22 am Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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Thanks John .. valuable comments!
Rodger
On Saturday, 21 December 2013, 23:14, johngoodman <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net (johngoodman(at)earthlink.net)>
Rodger, I was in Perth back in March of 2011 - beautiful place.
Anyway, I feel I should comment on the extended tanks. I've seen a lot of them, and I got the two dollar tour of John's right after he flew it to Sun 'n fun.
I would NOT do it. It was told to me that you need to be "very careful" taking off with a full load of fuel, and that you definitely had to have them empty before landing.
As far as the "tip tank" approach, I only know of people putting 7 or 8 gallons per side. Frankly, I wouldn't even do that. I have seen one that had the tip tank very close to the existing tank, to minimize the moment arm.
I'm very happy with a 60 gallon limit - so is my bladder. Just stop for gas.
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415978#415========================http://wwsp; -Matt DrList" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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After recent trip to Hawaii, I was fantasizing about flying the RV10 down to the islands. I figure that to cover the approximately 2050 miles from the SFO area to Hilo (the closest airport to the mainland) that you would need 14 hours of fuel to be safe or about 150 gallons (900#) of fuel at economy cruise. with my lightweight RV10 (1620#) and two 180# pilots that would put me 200# over gross with no food, water or emergency equipment and a 20# aux. fuel tank. One pilot might be can do, but still over gross.
I like the idea of an internal fuel tank. The obvious issues are CG, safety, sloshing in turbulence, and maneuvering speed. Except for safety, all of these issues are easily managed. I like the idea of a removable internal L/R tank. You are not flying these flights all of the time and the RV10 has reasonably long legs with the regular 60 gallon tanks. Baffles can prevent sloshing in turbulence. With the internal tank, venting can be done outside, and the pilot can control the plumbing/flow in flight. Plus it can be easily installed and removed from a secure position the back seat.
Just my thoughts, but I invite your comments!
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Q/B - sold. |
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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Bill Harrelson is a neighbor of mine here at Dogwood Airpark. Five of the
seven ferry tanks he used for his Guam to Jacksonville non-stop hop where
built from carbon fiber prepreg board and carbon fiber for the joints to
exactly match the available space inside the cabin. The two big collapsible
fuel blatters were on top of two of the carbon fiber tanks. The plumbing
and fuel manifolds were a work of art.
If I ever wanted to do extended fuel in the RV-10 (which I don't) I would go
the same way - tailored carbine fiber tanks fitted into the real seat foot
wells, simple transfer pump and plumbing with a common vent overboard. I'd
not consider the collapsible fuel blatter.
Carl
--
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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We see this Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these
| Quote: | Subject: RV10-List: Re: Extended Tankage
From: johngoodman@earthlink.net
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2013 10:32:52 -0800
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
If you're really serious about extra fuel, check this out...
http://www.turtlepac.com/en/photo-gallery/aircraft-ferry-tanks.html
John
--------
#40572 Phase One complete and flying.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=415998#415998
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[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:25 am Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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Thanks everyone for your comments to date.
John, I was aware of the Turtlepac products and indeed their Drum 66 would seem ideal for the back seat except it would mean refuelling within the cabin - the spec they supplied me several years ago confirmed that the filler tube was too short to route out of the cabin and I didn't want to alter the cabin top any further to insert some sort of pass through/adaptor for the filler head. My guess is that they would extend the filler tube if asked. However, it's very simple to either use it to refresh the main tanks or as a direct feed to the engine.
I became seriously interested in extending the capacity when I saw what Patrick did with his aircraft and heard his reasoning - a very nice job it is too but don't tell him - and became inspired when I read of Ian Pullin's magnificent effort when he flew his RV-6 (or possibly 7) from Jandakot (Perth's GA airport - busiest a/p in OZ) to the UK and back earlier this year. I remember at the time of its first flight thinking that John Nys' conversion must have been the work of a mad man. However seven, almost 8 years later, here I am actively considering doing something similar. We enjoy the delight of almost always having perfect flying weather but at the cost of huge distances between alternates. This is the virtual total opposite of the US situation where you have an alternate every 50 miles but also what can be pretty dire weather. In the Australian situation, this has the effect that unless you are flying up the populated East Coast most destinations are near the end of the 10's cruising range. Our closest way to Asia, for example, is Port Hedland to Denpasar which at 723 nm is right at the limit for a 10 (and then with little reserve) and en route it's all water full of large scary beasties as well as some small exceptionally scary ones (but they're seasonal!). Thus to use the full utility of this craft it really needs extra fuel. It's worth noting that the Brazilians ship their factory built 10's with 90 gallons capacity standard. Most of my flying will necessarily be over remote areas so safety and fuel reserves are my number one priorities.
I am still hoping that some one who has real world experience will chime in about the fully wet leading edge. My plan would be to add separate 30 gallon tanks in place of the standard outboard leading edge - I don't know how others have done it but I suspect they have created a single 60 gallon tank which I would see as not optimum. As an aside I believe there is someone in Victoria who offers tank conversions so it would be nice to hear from them.
Thanking you all,
Best Wishes,
Rodger
On Sunday, 22 December 2013, 9:19, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com> wrote:
We see this Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these
[quote]http://www.aeroww.buildersbooks.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.buildethelp.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.homebuilthelp.com= * Race Consulting http://www.matronics.avigator?RV10-List" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.matronics========================
forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.mat====================
[b]
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rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:50 am Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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Rodger
Robert Herring from Mildura, Victoria engineered the extended tank leading edge tanks that I have incorporated into my aircraft.
Robert modified my wings (fitted pressed access panels to my bottom skins to enable me to access the faucet transfer pumps and isolating solenoid) and has done all the engineering calculations.
Rob has also designed and built two experimental aircraft of his own design and is a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.
The reserve tanks hold 60 litres each (three ribs wide) in the leading edge tanks, which attach to the wing just like the main tanks using Z-attach brackets. We modified the outboard leading edge and cut down a full size inboard tank leading edge and I fabricated and built the tanks, as Rob hated Proseal. I have installed a float sensor in each tank, vents, lockable fuel caps and fuel drains.
As indicated by Rodger they'll be used for going a long way from home and hopefully returning on my own fuel, rather than paying some crazy price like $5.00 per litre for fuel at some remote out station, or having to purchase a full 44 Gallon drum, regardless of the fact that you might not be able to use the entire 45 Gallons based on limited fuel tank capacity.
Oz is big, fuel is few and far between in the outback and when it is available, you'll pay through the nose for it!
Warm regards and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all.
Safe skies and tailwinds.
Patrick
On 22 Dec 2013, at 18:55, Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk (rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
[quote]Thanks everyone for your comments to date.
John, I was aware of the Turtlepac products and indeed their Drum 66 would seem ideal for the back seat except it would mean refuelling within the cabin - the spec they supplied me several years ago confirmed that the filler tube was too short to route out of the cabin and I didn't want to alter the cabin top any further to insert some sort of pass through/adaptor for the filler head. My guess is that they would extend the filler tube if asked. However, it's very simple to either use it to refresh the main tanks or as a direct feed to the engine.
I became seriously interested in extending the capacity when I saw what Patrick did with his aircraft and heard his reasoning - a very nice job it is too but don't tell him - and became inspired when I read of Ian Pullin's magnificent effort when he flew his RV-6 (or possibly 7) from Jandakot (Perth's GA airport - busiest a/p in OZ) to the UK and back earlier this year. I remember at the time of its first flight thinking that John Nys' conversion must have been the work of a mad man. However seven, almost 8 years later, here I am actively considering doing something similar. We enjoy the delight of almost always having perfect flying weather but at the cost of huge distances between alternates. This is the virtual total opposite of the US situation where you have an alternate every 50 miles but also what can be pretty dire weather. In the Australian situation, this has the effect that unless you are flying up the populated East Coast most destinations are near the end of the 10's cruising range. Our closest way to Asia, for example, is Port Hedland to Denpasar which at 723 nm is right at the limit for a 10 (and then with little reserve) and en route it's all water full of large scary beasties as well as some small exceptionally scary ones (but they're seasonal!). Thus to use the full utility of this craft it really needs extra fuel. It's worth noting that the Brazilians ship their factory built 10's with 90 gallons capacity standard. Most of my flying will necessarily be over remote areas so safety and fuel reserves are my number one priorities.
I am still hoping that some one who has real world experience will chime in about the fully wet leading edge. My plan would be to add separate 30 gallon tanks in place of the standard outboard leading edge - I don't know how others have done it but I suspect they have created a single 60 gallon tank which I would see as not optimum. As an aside I believe there is someone in Victoria who offers tank conversions so it would be nice to hear from them.
Thanking you all,
Best Wishes,
Rodger
On Sunday, 22 December 2013, 9:19, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
We see this Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
00" face="3D"courier" new,courier"="">[url=3D"http://www.aeroelectric.com"]www.aeroelectric.com[/url]
books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com
quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com
quot;">www.mypilotstore.com
">www.mrrace.com
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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Pictures of this set up would be great to share!
-Mike Kraus
Do not archive
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 22, 2013, at 6:49 AM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au (rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au)> wrote:
[quote]Rodger
Robert Herring from Mildura, Victoria engineered the extended tank leading edge tanks that I have incorporated into my aircraft.
Robert modified my wings (fitted pressed access panels to my bottom skins to enable me to access the faucet transfer pumps and isolating solenoid) and has done all the engineering calculations.
Rob has also designed and built two experimental aircraft of his own design and is a Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.
The reserve tanks hold 60 litres each (three ribs wide) in the leading edge tanks, which attach to the wing just like the main tanks using Z-attach brackets. We modified the outboard leading edge and cut down a full size inboard tank leading edge and I fabricated and built the tanks, as Rob hated Proseal. I have installed a float sensor in each tank, vents, lockable fuel caps and fuel drains.
As indicated by Rodger they'll be used for going a long way from home and hopefully returning on my own fuel, rather than paying some crazy price like $5.00 per litre for fuel at some remote out station, or having to purchase a full 44 Gallon drum, regardless of the fact that you might not be able to use the entire 45 Gallons based on limited fuel tank capacity.
Oz is big, fuel is few and far between in the outback and when it is available, you'll pay through the nose for it!
Warm regards and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all.
Safe skies and tailwinds.
Patrick
On 22 Dec 2013, at 18:55, Rodger Todd <rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk (rj_todd(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks everyone for your comments to date.
John, I was aware of the Turtlepac products and indeed their Drum 66 would seem ideal for the back seat except it would mean refuelling within the cabin - the spec they supplied me several years ago confirmed that the filler tube was too short to route out of the cabin and I didn't want to alter the cabin top any further to insert some sort of pass through/adaptor for the filler head. My guess is that they would extend the filler tube if asked. However, it's very simple to either use it to refresh the main tanks or as a direct feed to the engine.
I became seriously interested in extending the capacity when I saw what Patrick did with his aircraft and heard his reasoning - a very nice job it is too but don't tell him - and became inspired when I read of Ian Pullin's magnificent effort when he flew his RV-6 (or possibly 7) from Jandakot (Perth's GA airport - busiest a/p in OZ) to the UK and back earlier this year. I remember at the time of its first flight thinking that John Nys' conversion must have been the work of a mad man. However seven, almost 8 years later, here I am actively considering doing something similar. We enjoy the delight of almost always having perfect flying weather but at the cost of huge distances between alternates. This is the virtual total opposite of the US situation where you have an alternate every 50 miles but also what can be pretty dire weather. In the Australian situation, this has the effect that unless you are flying up the populated East Coast most destinations are near the end of the 10's cruising range. Our closest way to Asia, for example, is Port Hedland to Denpasar which at 723 nm is right at the limit for a 10 (and then with little reserve) and en route it's all water full of large scary beasties as well as some small exceptionally scary ones (but they're seasonal!). Thus to use the full utility of this craft it really needs extra fuel. It's worth noting that the Brazilians ship their factory built 10's with 90 gallons capacity standard. Most of my flying will necessarily be over remote areas so safety and fuel reserves are my number one priorities.
I am still hoping that some one who has real world experience will chime in about the fully wet leading edge. My plan would be to add separate 30 gallon tanks in place of the standard outboard leading edge - I don't know how others have done it but I suspect they have created a single 60 gallon tank which I would see as not optimum. As an aside I believe there is someone in Victoria who offers tank conversions so it would be nice to hear from them.
Thanking you all,
Best Wishes,
Rodger
On Sunday, 22 December 2013, 9:19, Danny Riggs <jdriggs49(at)msn.com (jdriggs49(at)msn.com)> wrote:
We see this Australian guy at Oshkosh every year selling these
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">www.aeroelectric.com
books.com"">www.buildersbooks.com
quot;">www.homebuilthelp.com
quot;">www.mypilotstore.com
">www.mrrace.com
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AirMike
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 514
Location: Nevada
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| Posted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:26 pm Post subject: Extended Tankage |
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I am most entertained at the response to my fantasy flights across the Pacific in my RV10.
I have received several private communications on the subject. One person has an auto racing style plastic fuel tank in the back of his RV10 (removable) and auto racing style quick-connect-dripless connectors. Several people have mentioned that the standard Van's fuel valve has a 4th position that has a plug in it on the stock set up. This fact, we all should know from our annual inspections.
Several RV10's have tip tanks fitted. There is also an RV10 out there with a 90 gallon internal tank fitted to the back seat and back seat foot well - wow! I was told that it is well baffled and fitted close to the front seats in deference to the CG. They made a mock up first to make sure that the tank would fit in the door. Lots of anchoring calculations. The life raft goes on top of the tank.
Hilo here I come. Goodbye to those overpriced flights on American, United and Hawaiian airlines.
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_________________
See you OSH '18
Q/B - sold. |
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