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tc
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Woodbridge, VA (fly KHEF)
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 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/23/13 |
 |
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Hello Smokey --
Did finally get HR II 85TP to spin yesterday, after C-172 spin ride with my CFI student.
85TP CG is so far forward, figured out to carry some power in entry for elevator authority to get full stall rather than it dropping immediately into a spiral.
85TP spin is steep, est 60-70 deg, high roll rate with clipped wings; but with its forward cg, recovery is immediate with some forward stick and opp rudder. Spin rate raps up briefly with pitch down, then out it comes.
Hello Stan / speedy11 -- if you're up here -- yes, I remember you from Vance Tweets early 70's; have enjoyed your RV-8 blogs for several years.
Weren't we both in USAFE too? (I was Spangdahlem 81TFS / 52 TFW '81 - '83 / F-4E/G, back again '86 - '88 in 81TFS / F-4E/G / F-16C)
Tim Carey
HR II 85TP
KHEF
Manassas, VA
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list(at)matronics.com>
To: "Rocket-List Digest List" <rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 3:02:39 AM
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/23/13
*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2013-12-23&Archive=Rocket
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2013-12-23&Archive=Rocket
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 12/23/13: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Rob Ray)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: Plans? (John Harmon)
3. 07:56 PM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/22/13 (speedy11(at)aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:41:23 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/21/13
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Let me know how it goes Tim!
Merry Christmas!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:13, careytn(at)comcast.net wrote:
Appreciate the spin words Smokey.
Have been trying to spin 85TP for couple years now without luck -- very fo
rward solo cg, won't do it dual first time -- haven't been able to get the e
|
ntry started, though have hundreds of spins from USAF years.
| Quote: |
Will try again using your technique, see if I can get it to go.
Cheers,
Tim Carey
N85TP
KHEF
Manassas, VA
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list(at)matronics.com>
To: "Rocket-List Digest List" <rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 3:02:44 AM
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/21/13
=========================
|
| Quote: | Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
|
| Quote: |
Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
|
| Quote: | in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
|
| Quote: | and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
|
| Quote: |
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 9
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Plans? (Dylan Caldwell)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: Plans? (Oliver Coolidge)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
4. 08:08 AM - Re: Plans? (Oliver Coolidge)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: Plans? (Nancy and Randy)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
7. 09:34 AM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
8. 01:22 PM - Re: Plans? (Oliver Coolidge)
9. 04:09 PM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 04:50:12 AM PST US
From: Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com>
Subject: Plans?
Hello, All,
Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would be w
illing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
Thanks much,
Dylan
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 06:36:47 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Rocket-List: Plans?
From: Oliver Coolidge <olivercoolidge(at)gmail.com>
Where are you located? Have you asked John Harmon?
Oliver
Typing with my thumbs
On Dec 21, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello, All,
> Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would be
willing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
> Thanks much,
> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 07:21:08 AM PST US
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Plans?
Wow, a Rocket list message! Even better, someone wanting to build one? Yea
h!
|
| Quote: |
Merry Christmas Y"all!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:48, Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello, All,
> Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would be
willing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
> Thanks much,
> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 08:08:38 AM PST US
From: Oliver Coolidge <olivercoolidge(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Plans?
Smokey,
Have you built one???
Oliver
Typing with my thumbs
On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:20 AM, Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> Wow, a Rocket list message! Even better, someone wanting to build one? Y
eah!
|
| Quote: | >
> Merry Christmas Y"all!
> Smokey
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:48, Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello, All,
>> Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would b
e willing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
>> Thanks much,
>> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 08:14:26 AM PST US
From: "Nancy and Randy" <nrsage86(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Plans?
Smokey, Merry Christmas! Still getting my Rocket up to speed; plan to
actually fly it shortly after the new year. I have been meaning to ask yo
u
|
| Quote: | about aerobatics in the Rocket---especially spins. Do you have any words t
o
|
[quote] the wise?
Thanks,
Tailwinds and blue skies,
Randy
---
| | - The Matronics Rocket-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List |
|
_________________
Tim Carey
Dulles Aviation, Inc., Manassas, VA
USAF, Retired |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
smokyray(at)rocketmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:01 am Post subject: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/23/13 |
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|
Awesome Tim, glad you succeeded in spinning your HR2, something I'm sure you've seen "once or twice" before!
Since we emailed I have explored the spin entry envelope of my much lighter nosed RVX. Entry altitude was raised to 10K AGL and I wore my chute. With a tad of power at the break and 10degrees nose up it enters much more flat and wraps up slower. I had several F16 deep stall training flashbacks, the sight picture and recovery being similar. Unless you chop power and immediately apply spin recovery inputs and full down elevator it stays nearly level in spin, a big surprise for an RV. The Rockets CG would make this a non-event.
I miss my HR2 but the X is truly a unique and challenging machine... testing continues!
Seeya!
V/R
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:12, careytn(at)comcast.net (careytn(at)comcast.net) wrote:
[quote]Hello Smokey --
Did finally get HR II 85TP to spin yesterday, after C-172 spin ride with my CFI student.
85TP CG is so far forward, figured out to carry some power in entry for elevator authority to get full stall rather than it dropping immediately into a spiral.
85TP spin is steep, est 60-70 deg, high roll rate with clipped wings; but with its forward cg, recovery is immediate with some forward stick and opp rudder. Spin rate raps up briefly with pitch down, then out it comes.
Hello Stan / speedy11 -- if you're up here -- yes, I remember you from Vance Tweets early 70's; have enjoyed your RV-8 blogs for several years.
Weren't we both in USAFE too? (I was Spangdahlem 81TFS / 52 TFW '81 - '83 / F-4E/G, back again '86 - '88 in 81TFS / F-4E/G / F-16C)
Tim Carey
HR II 85TP
KHEF
Manassas, VA
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list(at)matronics.com (rocket-list(at)matronics.com)>
To: "Rocket-List Digest List" <rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com (rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 3:02:39 AM
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/23/13
*
=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Rocket-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2013-12-23&Archive=Rocket
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2013-12-23&Archive=Rocket
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 12/23/13: 3
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/21/13 (Rob Ray)
2. 08:25 AM - Re: Plans? (John Harmon)
3. 07:56 PM - Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/22/13 (speedy11(at)aol.com (speedy11(at)aol.com))
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:41:23 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/21/13
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com (smokyray(at)rocketmail.com)>
Let me know how it goes Tim!
Merry Christmas!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Dec 22, 2013, at 8:13, careytn(at)comcast.net (careytn(at)comcast.net) wrote:
Appreciate the spin words Smokey.
Have been trying to spin 85TP for couple years now without luck -- very fo
rward solo cg, won't do it dual first time -- haven't been able to get the e
|
ntry started, though have hundreds of spins from USAF years.
| Quote: |
Will try again using your technique, see if I can get it to go.
Cheers,
Tim Carey
N85TP
KHEF
Manassas, VA
From: "Rocket-List Digest Server" <rocket-list(at)matronics.com (rocket-list(at)matronics.com)>
To: "Rocket-List Digest List" <rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com (rocket-list-digest(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 3:02:44 AM
Subject: Rocket-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/21/13
=========================
|
| Quote: | Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================
|
| Quote: |
Today's complete Rocket-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
|
| Quote: | in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
|
| Quote: | and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
|
| Quote: |
======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Rocket-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Sat 12/21/13: 9
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:50 AM - Plans? (Dylan Caldwell)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: Plans? (Oliver Coolidge)
3. 07:21 AM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
4. 08:08 AM - Re: Plans? (Oliver Coolidge)
5. 08:14 AM - Re: Plans? (Nancy and Randy)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
7. 09:34 AM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
8. 01:22 PM - Re: Plans? (Oliver Coolidge)
9. 04:09 PM - Re: Plans? (Rob Ray)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 04:50:12 AM PST US
From: Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com (macquistan(at)mac.com)>
Subject: Plans?
Hello, All,
Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would be w
illing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
Thanks much,
Dylan
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 06:36:47 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Plans?
From: Oliver Coolidge <olivercoolidge(at)gmail.com (olivercoolidge(at)gmail.com)>
Where are you located? Have you asked John Harmon?
Oliver
Typing with my thumbs
On Dec 21, 2013, at 4:48 AM, Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com (macquistan(at)mac.com)> wrote:
>
>
> Hello, All,
> Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would be
willing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
> Thanks much,
> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 07:21:08 AM PST US
From: Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com (smokyray(at)rocketmail.com)>
Subject: Re: Plans?
Wow, a Rocket list message! Even better, someone wanting to build one? Yea
h!
|
| Quote: |
Merry Christmas Y"all!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:48, Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com (macquistan(at)mac.com)> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello, All,
> Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would be
willing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
> Thanks much,
> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 08:08:38 AM PST US
From: Oliver Coolidge <olivercoolidge(at)gmail.com (olivercoolidge(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Re: Plans?
Smokey,
Have you built one???
Oliver
Typing with my thumbs
On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:20 AM, Rob Ray <smokyray(at)rocketmail.com (smokyray(at)rocketmail.com)> wrote:
>
> Wow, a Rocket list message! Even better, someone wanting to build one? Y
eah!
|
| Quote: | >
> Merry Christmas Y"all!
> Smokey
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 21, 2013, at 7:48, Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)mac.com (macquistan(at)mac.com)> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello, All,
>> Does anyone have a set of plans for the Harmon Rocket that they would b
e willing
|
| Quote: | to sell?
>> Thanks much,
>> Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________
________
|
| Quote: |
Time: 08:14:26 AM PST US
From: "Nancy and Randy" <nrsage86(at)comcast.net (nrsage86(at)comcast.net)>
Subject: Re: Plans?
Smokey, Merry Christmas! Still getting my Rocket up to speed; plan to
actually fly it shortly after the new year. I have been meaning to ask yo
u
|
| Quote: | about aerobatics in the Rocket---especially spins. Do you have any words t
o
|
[quote] the wise?
Thanks,
Tailwinds and blue skies,
Randy
---
| | - The Matronics Rocket-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List |
|
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| Back to top |
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tc
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Woodbridge, VA (fly KHEF)
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/23/13 |
|
|
Whoa Smokey -- near-flat spin in your X?
Your CG must be much farther aft; but sounds like enough elevator to get the nose down, break the stall.
If that doesn't work some time and you stay flat, may have enough aileron to roll toward 90 degrees bank, let the nose drop or slice the nose down with bottom rudder.
(My ailerons very effective in controlling roll / roll rate in spin.)
Cheers,
Tim
| | - The Matronics Rocket-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List |
|
_________________
Tim Carey
Dulles Aviation, Inc., Manassas, VA
USAF, Retired |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
smokyray(at)rocketmail.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:11 pm Post subject: Rocket-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 12/23/13 |
|
|
Tim,
I enjoy exploring airplanes full flight envelopes, the X is no exception. With a bit of power any airplane will sustain a flatter spin, especially with a more aft CG. The F16 will enter a deep stall if you assault any flight control limiter at low speed (BFM, 1V1). In the mid 1990"s The ANG began sending all of our F16 IP"s to Edwards to an advanced handling course. There you would fly several "departure" scenarios in a modified (very aft CG) 2 seat B model with a test pilot in the pit. Fun!!!! Side benefit was a greater awareness of low speed handling in ANY airplane.
Spins are good training for any pilot in recognition and avoidance thereof for any airplane...glad you got to spin the HR2!
See ya!
Smokey
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jan 6, 2014, at 9:03, "tc" <careytn(at)comcast.net> wrote:
Whoa Smokey -- near-flat spin in your X?
Your CG must be much farther aft; but sounds like enough elevator to get the nose down, break the stall.
If that doesn't work some time and you stay flat, may have enough aileron to roll toward 90 degrees bank, let the nose drop or slice the nose down with bottom rudder.
(My ailerons very effective in controlling roll / roll rate in spin.)
Cheers,
Tim
--------
Tim Carey
Dulles Aviation, Inc., Manassas, VA
USAF, Retired
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416637#416637
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| | - The Matronics Rocket-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Rocket-List |
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