Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Kolbd deatil photos

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:36 am Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

Attempting to post photos. If successful will follow up with additional information.

20140119_151202.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

393.79 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_150534.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

362.7 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_150513.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

550.82 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_150433.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

412.29 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_150407.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

287.04 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_141401.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

381.06 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_141316.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

315.91 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_141238.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

413.31 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_141208.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

565.9 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140808.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

319.96 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140752.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

498.88 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140709.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

336.68 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140652.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

450.87 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140548.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

481.92 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140535.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

541.17 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140509.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

351.59 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140454.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

323.48 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140434.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

376.37 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140341.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

371.67 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140304.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

611.18 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140224.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

519.25 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

20140119_140140.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

513.09 KB

Viewed:

15293 Time(s)

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

OK photos posted



This is my Firefly , Part construction kit and part quick build, Brian built the wing structure almost to quick build specs. He could not do the rigging portion as I already had the rest of the airplane built. Please ignore the incorrect fasteners, I am making some changes and many of the bolts are temporary. The structure and rigging is as last flown, hope this helps Stuart or any other Firefly builders. 

 Mods.  I did not like the supplied throttle so I fabricated the one pictured.

 Notice the small screws on the interior nose cone supports and the exterior bottom - no need to drill rivets for removal.

 Modified rudder horn, for clearance.

 I have seen a number of spark plug cap retention methods but they all required consumables. Composite rod has a sleeve glued on recoil end and tight fitting o rings to secure rod - slide o rings down rod for removal.

Nylon spacers at wing strut attach points to help prevent wear from sliding and vibration - inspection rings for future opening and covers.

Many bolts ( as seen on intake manifold ) and axles are Titanium, Al. lock nuts on shear only fasteners.

9 volt battery powers Belite instruments.

A few others that I will post at a later date.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:14 am Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

I looked at all the photos- that is a very good looking plane.  Any idea when she will fly?



                                                                      Bill  Sullivan

                                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.

                                                                       FS 447





        From: Ducati SS <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 11:01 AM

 Subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

  

 

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ducati SS" <hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com (hiwingflyer6219(at)yahoo.com)>



OK photos posted



This is my Firefly , Part construction kit and part quick build, Brian built the wing structure almost to quick build specs. He could not do the rigging portion  as I already had the rest of the airplane built. Please ignore the incorrect fasteners, I am making some changes and many of the bolts are temporary. The structure and rigging is as last flown, hope this helps Stuart or any other Firefly builders. 

 Mods.  I did not like the supplied throttle so I fabricated the one pictured.

 Notice the small screws on the interior nose cone supports and the exterior bottom - no need to drill rivets for removal.

 Modified rudder horn, for clearance.

 I have seen a number of spark plug cap retention methods but they all required consumables. Composite rod has a sleeve glued on recoil end and tight fitting o rings to secure rod - slide o rings down rod for removal.

Nylon spacers at wing strut attach points to help prevent wear from sliding and vibration - inspection rings for future opening and covers.

Many bolts ( as seen on intake manifold ) and axles are Titanium, Al. lock nuts on shear only  fasteners.

9 volt battery powers Belite instruments.

A few others that I will post at a later date.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=41om/Navigator?Kolb-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato           nbsp;                 -Matt Dralle,tribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

_-===================================

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

I have about 3 hours flight time on it and a lot of taxi time.

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

Perfection.   I love it.



Your plane and garage show an organized, detail oriented mind.  So what happened here?  "Kolbd deatil photos"   Someone else must have started the thread for you.   



The only thing I would change is the plastic fuel line clamps.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:23 pm Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

Brother SS:



That is an exceptionally slick looking Fly, sir...  Great workmanship...

Congratulations...!



I wish you many safe and fun hours in her...   



beauford

FF-076,  N173BW

Brandon, FL

Do not archive



--

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

Beautiful airplane, excellent workmanship. Something you might think of doing is upgrading when it comes time to replace the urethane tubing in a couple years.



If it were mine, I would get soft aluminum fuel line tubing from AC Spruce and run in place of the urethane, with rubber automotive fuel line at the connections where you have to transition from the aluminum to soft tubing. Had a urethane tubing failure last summer, oil line from the oil injection tank to the injector pump failed while the airplane was sitting in the hangar. Walked into the hangar one day - oil everywhere. What a mess! Hate to think if it had happened in flight.



Doing what I call a 5-year annual this winter, serious stuff and upgrades,  when I get done there will no urethane tubing on my airplane.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:08 pm Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

Haven't used plastic fuel line for years, many years.  Never understood why

it was used on airplanes in the first place.  Got a perfect track record

with Gates black neoprene fuel line.  If you are concerned if the fuel line

will collapse, buy Gates Fuel Injection Fuel Line.  Yep, they make it in

1/4" ID.



I use Gates Fuel Line to feed a 5.5 KW Onan Generator from a 25 gal alum aux

tank, both mounted permanently in the pickup bed of my truck.  The fuel line

is exposed to the sun and weather every day, all day.  I don't know how many

years I use it before replacement, but usually when it starts looking like

it may fail, 3, 4, 5 years.  Like I said, don't know for sure.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



 

If it were mine, I would get soft aluminum tubing from AC Spruce and run in

place of the urethane, with automotive fuel line at the connections where

you have to transition from the aluminum to soft tubing. Had a urethane

tubing failure last summer, oil line from the oil injection tank to the

injector pump failed while the airplane was sitting in the hangar. Walked

into the hangar one day - oil everywhere. What a mess! Hate to think if it

had happened in flight.

 

Richard Pike

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

The Gates hose John refers to complies with a standard called SAE 30R9.   So, any hose that complies with that should work quite well.  For example, go to  napaonline.com  and in the search box, type in "30R9" and you'll get some of that hose that you can order from them.  (Their WH H0770410 part number is the 1/4" ID hose.) 



  -- Robert



On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 10:08 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

  

 

 Haven't used plastic fuel line for years, many years.  Never understood why

 it was used on airplanes in the first place.  Got a perfect track record

 with Gates black neoprene fuel line.  If you are concerned if the fuel line

 will collapse, buy Gates Fuel Injection Fuel Line.  Yep, they make it in

 1/4" ID.

 

 I use Gates Fuel Line to feed a 5.5 KW Onan Generator from a 25 gal alum aux

 tank, both mounted permanently in the pickup bed of my truck.  The fuel line

 is exposed to the sun and weather every day, all day.  I don't know how many

 years I use it before replacement, but usually when it starts looking like

 it may fail, 3, 4, 5 years.  Like I said, don't know for sure.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

 If it were mine, I would get soft aluminum tubing from AC Spruce and run in

 place of the urethane, with automotive fuel line at the connections where

 you have to transition from the aluminum to soft tubing. Had a urethane

 tubing failure last summer, oil line from the oil injection tank to the

 injector pump failed while the airplane was sitting in the hangar. Walked

 into the hangar one day - oil everywhere. What a mess! Hate to think if it

 had happened in flight.

 

 

Richard Pike

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

Thanks to all



Yes I had help, but after all her time and effort to post the photos I an not about to complain.



I agree the plastic clamps are near useless, I will be replacing them with steel.



Great idea with the aluminum fuel line, never even crossed my mind. I will plan to make the change if I ever get caught up with my other projects. For now I prefer the urethane over the neoprene for this application. I have a coil of urethane and replace the line each spring.

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:33 am Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

for what it is worth.....   after 4 to 6 months of using the urethane fuel 

hose with the plastic clamps,,  supplied by kolb,,,,,   I started noticing 

some fuel staining on the engine cooling fins,,,,   I turned on the electric 

fuel pump and walked around to see,,,,  there were leaks on 2 of the joints. 

it was bypassing the fitting and hose where the plastic clamp overlapped 

itself...    long story short,,,  if I were to use urethane fuel lines,,,  I 

would not just put a metal clamp on it and expect it to hold.  the inside of 

the clamp would not be as smooth as the plastic clamp.  which let fuel pass 

in the very tiny spot where there was less pressure on the tube.



so imho  in my humble opinion,,, to use urethane hoses,   in addition to the 

metal clamp,  I would cut a 1/2 inch of tube and place it on the outside of 

the hose.   donâ€™t use any splits in the 1/2 inch peace, that would give you 

uneven pressure on the inner hose,,,  leave it intact.  it will be harder to 

get the hose over the fitting.  but will allow for more even pressure 

between the clamp, hose, and fitting.



OR   someone in the past recommended using 4 or 5 wraps with tie wire,   the 

center few wraps would create very even pressure between the hose and 

fitting.



boyd young

mkiii utah



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>


	


--

stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

Helpful, YES!  WOW, what nice work you do.



Thanks so much for posting these.  I have downloaded them all and saved them

for reference material.



I too, did not like the idea of permanently attaching the nose, nor resting

my feet on the fiberglass.  My solution was to install nut plates on an

aluminum angle and then rivet that to the inside (vertical) wall of the two

square cross tubes.  This allows me to use #10 stainless large head screws

and fender washers to attach the nose. 



The fiberglass did not fit very well and when I tightened up the screws it

caused the bottom edge to bow upward.  I solved this by making a floor plate

out of 1/8 plywood and using it as a spacer between the fiberglass and the

fuselage.



This solved two problems at once.  It made the nose fit much better and it

took the stress of my feet off of the fiberglass.



Downside:  It added a little weight  I will endeavor to make this up

elsewhere.



I would very much like to see some detail of how you attached the fabric to

the upper longerons.  I can see the tapes you applied in the photos of the

inside of the cockpit.



You did such a nice job of gluing and wrapping the fabric around surfaces, I

cannot quite see the details.  Which of course is the point isn't it?



What finishing system did you use, and how many coats?



Thanks for everything,



Stuart



--

frank goodnight

Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: Kolbd deatil photos

Hi

If your floor plate is made from

Alum instead of wood it makes a good 



Ground plane for the radio--So i've ben told--

Seems likes my radio works better that way.



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 22, 2014, at 11:00 AM, "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Helpful, YES!  WOW, what nice work you do.

 

 Thanks so much for posting these.  I have downloaded them all and saved them

 for reference material.

 

 I too, did not like the idea of permanently attaching the nose, nor resting

 my feet on the fiberglass.  My solution was to install nut plates on an

 aluminum angle and then rivet that to the inside (vertical) wall of the two

 square cross tubes.  This allows me to use #10 stainless large head screws

 and fender washers to attach the nose. 

 

 The fiberglass did not fit very well and when I tightened up the screws it

 caused the bottom edge to bow upward.  I solved this by making a floor plate

 out of 1/8 plywood and using it as a spacer between the fiberglass and the

 fuselage.

 

 This solved two problems at once.  It made the nose fit much better and it

 took the stress of my feet off of the fiberglass.

 

 Downside:  It added a little weight  I will endeavor to make this up

 elsewhere.

 

 I would very much like to see some detail of how you attached the fabric to

 the upper longerons.  I can see the tapes you applied in the photos of the

 inside of the cockpit.

 

 You did such a nice job of gluing and wrapping the fabric around surfaces, I

 cannot quite see the details.  Which of course is the point isn't it?

 

 What finishing system did you use, and how many coats?

 

 Thanks for everything,

 

 Stuart

 

 --

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

I will take some close up photos of the areas you request this weekend ( need my helper) and add description of the process when I post them. Any other items you would like close ups of let me know before Sat. Good luck with your project.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

 	  Ducati SS wrote: 	
		  Thanks to all



Yes I had help, but after all her time and effort to post the photos I an not about to complain.



I agree the plastic clamps are near useless, I will be replacing them with steel.



Great idea with the aluminum fuel line, never even crossed my mind. I will plan to make the change if I ever get caught up with my other projects. For now I prefer the urethane over the neoprene for this application. I have a coil of urethane and replace the line each spring. 	




If you have a huge supply of urethane tubing for free or almost, then it is a reasonable option, but buying and using a dozen or two small hose clamps is a waste of weight and money. Use safety wire instead. Never had any problems with it if you are using good quality urethane. Instructions & pictures at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg13.html

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

It appears that you did a superb job here.  I donâ€™t want to rain on anyoneâ€™s parade, but it appears that when slack, the rudder cables are dragging on the elevator horn causing a bare spot.  4130 tubing is more susceptible to corrosion than mild steel. Things like this need to be touched up immediately before rust sets in.  If I were you, I would touch it up soon, wrap a couple of layers up electrical tape over the area and add this spot to your inspection checklist for regular monitoring.  A short length of poly spiral electrical wrap might offer more permanent protection.



Oh, and urethane fuel tubing works fine if you replace it at the beginning of each flying season; otherwise even the â€˜good stuffâ€™ falls apart after 2 - 3 years.  At least that was my experience 14 years ago.  Tubing chemistry may have improved since then, but I wouldnâ€™t bet MY ass on it.

_________________
Jerry King

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Kolbd deatil photos

Contact of the rudder cables and elevator bell crank is due more to the fact that the bell crank moves up and down as it rotates. Look at the photo and you will see the bell crank pivot bolts are forward of horn shaft rotation. Due to the more or less hand built nature ( at Kolb ) of these airplanes and the resulting variation in parts I can not say weather all Fireflies have this problem but it appears many do. I was able to modify the rudder horn and make some other adjustments to minimize contact ant they only touch at extreme up elevator. I do not believe there is any contact during normal flight, the marks are from taxing with full up elevator and steering. Tape will not work as it is not the cable but the sleeves that scratch off the paint. Any sleeve added will only reduce clearance. Though I did apply corrosion prevention during construction I really do not have much of a corrosion issue, my garage is heated and dehumidified and my hanger is completely enclosed with a concrete floor. I have considered adding  internal brackets using the existing  forward fin and stab mounting holes to support an internal bracket with pulleys. The pulleys would be canted slightly off vertical and near the top of the boom tube to raise the rudder cables.  

A future experiment.                                                                                              I worked for years as a professional motorcycle, snowmobile mechanic, which was very fortunate as I was able to work extensively with a number of 2 stroke brands including Rotax. I also worked with various types of fuel line and understand the limitations of urethane, so  I treat it as a short term consumable.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum