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cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: turf runways

I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.



Thanks,

Marcus

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:58 pm Post subject: turf runways

We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage 

to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on 

a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more 

you'll feel roughness.

Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips



On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

      I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.



 Thanks,

 Marcus

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:33 am Post subject: turf runways

I live on a 2200' grass runway.  When I built my -10 I raised the wheel pants a little higher, maybe an extra 3/4-1" is all I could get.  I also made the clearance around the wheel approximately 1" all the way around.   I've had no issues and no wheel pant damage so far in 3 years and ~270 hours.



-Mike Kraus

Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.

 

 Thanks,

 Marcus

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:10 am Post subject: Re: turf runways

Go Pantless, like I did.

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:59 am Post subject: turf runways

The bottom of my wheel pants are left with primer color only due to rubbing against grass.  However it is not visible unless you are removing the wheel pants. 

Do not archive. 

Rob Kermanj

Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:58 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:

 We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

 The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more you'll feel roughness.

 Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips

> On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:

> 

> 

> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

>     I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.

> 

> Thanks,

> Marcus

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> -----

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

amekler

Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 164

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: turf runways

I took my pants off for winter. It costs me about 8 kts but necessary to avoid damage.

Alan

N668G



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:58 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 The bottom of my wheel pants are left with primer color only due to rubbing against grass.  However it is not visible unless you are removing the wheel pants. 

 

 Do not archive. 

 

 Rob Kermanj

 Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:58 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

> The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more you'll feel roughness.

> Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips

> 

>> On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

>>    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.

>> 

>> Thanks,

>> Marcus

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> -----

>> No virus found in this message.

>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

tgmeyerster(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:26 am Post subject: turf runways

Doesn't that get cold without your pants on in winter;-)?



On Monday, January 27, 2014, Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net (amekler(at)metrocast.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Alan Mekler <[url=javascript:;]amekler(at)metrocast.net[/url]>

 

 I took my pants off for winter. It costs me about 8 kts but necessary to avoid damage.

 Alan

 N668G

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 > On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:58 AM, Rob Kermanj <[url=javascript:;]flysrv10(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Kermanj <[url=javascript:;]flysrv10(at)gmail.com[/url]>

 >

 > The bottom of my wheel pants are left with primer color only due to rubbing against grass.  However it is not visible unless you are removing the wheel pants.

 >

 > Do not archive.

 >

 > Rob Kermanj

 > Sent from my iPhone

 >

 >> On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:58 PM, Linn Walters <[url=javascript:;]flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com[/url]> wrote:

 >>

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <[url=javascript:;]flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com[/url]>

 >>

 >> We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

 >> The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more you'll feel roughness.

 >> Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips

 >>

 >>> On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:

 >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Cooprv7 <[url=javascript:;]cooprv7(at)yahoo.com[/url]>

 >>>

 >>> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

  >>>    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.

 >>>

 >>> Thanks,

 >>> Marcus

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>> -----

 >>> No virus found in this message.

 >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: turf runways

I thought about that but just can't do it.  7 years with pants on has me used to them.

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:10 AM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Go Pantless, like I did.

 

 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete and flying.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417667#417667

cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:38 am Post subject: turf runways

Thanks for all of the replies, seems like I've been overly cautious and will give it a try given favorable conditions.



Thanks again,

Marcus



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:58 AM, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 The bottom of my wheel pants are left with primer color only due to rubbing against grass.  However it is not visible unless you are removing the wheel pants. 

 

 Do not archive. 

 

 Rob Kermanj

 Sent from my iPhone

 

> On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:58 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

> The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more you'll feel roughness.

> Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips

> 

>> On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

>>    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.

>> 

>> Thanks,

>> Marcus

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> -----

>> No virus found in this message.

>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:39 am Post subject: turf runways

What might seem counter-intuitive, in the desert Southwest, pants are 

needed for engine cooling.

The added drag and lower airspeed reduces air over the engine, resulting 

in hotter temps.

I've forgotten how much Deems said his temps came down after he added 

wheel pants, and I seem to recall the speed penalty was over 10 kts 

without the pants. Currently planning on doing pants during phase 1, and 

not before first flight.

On 1/27/2014 7:34 AM, Marcus Cooper wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I thought about that but just can't do it.  7 years with pants on has me used to them.

> On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:10 AM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Go Pantless, like I did.

>

> --------

> #40572 Phase One complete and flying.

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417667#417667

>

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: turf runways

I operate almost exclusively off of grass.  I have had some issues with vibration causing the mounting hardware to shake loose.  I solved that with Sean's spacer for the mains.  The only other thing I notice is a very slow erosion of paint on the bottoms.  You need to watch out for ant mounds and gopher holes though.  The 10 works great on grass.



Gary Specketer



From: "Cooprv7" <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:48:03 PM

Subject: turf runways



--> RV10-List message posted by: Cooprv7 <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>



I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunitie                     &nbs========================



 [quote][b]

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:49 am Post subject: turf runways

Just make sure you can get your fingers between the tire and the pants all the way around (and make sure that is STILL the case when you replace the tires).  Also, when landing on grass increase the inflation by 5 or so pounds, you'll be just fine.  Landed at Cedar Mill TX 3 times, Johnson Creek ID about 12 times, and Smiley Creek ID twice.... neither I, or any of the RV'rs in the group have ever had a wheel pant issue.



 

 

     On Monday, January 27, 2014 8:39 AM, Timothy Meyer  <tgmeyerster(at)gmail.com> wrote:

  

  Doesn't that get cold without your pants on in winter;-)?



On Monday, January 27, 2014, Alan Mekler <amekler(at)metrocast.net (amekler(at)metrocast.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Alan Mekler <[url=]amekler(at)metrocast.net[/url]>

 

 I took my pants off for winter. It costs me about 8 kts but necessary to avoid damage.

 Alan

 N668G

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 > On Jan 27, 2014, at 8:58 AM, Rob Kermanj <[url=]flysrv10(at)gmail.com[/url]> wrote:

 >

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rob Kermanj <[url=]flysrv10(at)gmail.com[/url]>

 >

 > The bottom of my wheel pants are left with primer color only due to rubbing against grass.  However it is not visible unless you are removing the wheel pants.

 >

 > Do not archive.

 >

 > Rob Kermanj

 > Sent from my iPhone

 >

 >> On Jan 26, 2014, at 10:58 PM, Linn Walters <[url=]flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com[/url]> wrote:

 >>

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <[url=]flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com[/url]>

 >>

 >> We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

 >> The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more you'll feel roughness.

 >> Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips

 >>

 >>> On 1/26/2014 10:48 PM, Cooprv7 wrote:

 >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Cooprv7 <[url=]cooprv7(at)yahoo.com[/url]>

 >>>

 >>> I have steered clear of grass runways in my RV-10 since there is so little clearance below the wheelpants, but I was wondering what experience others have had?  Those of you who fly off of grass, what sort of criteria and conditions do you require?

  >>>    I'm interested in moving to an Airpark (probably TN) in the next few years and not having to limit the search to paved runways would sure open the opportunities.

 >>>

 >>> Thanks,

 >>> Marcus

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>>

 >>> -----

 >>> No virus found in this message.

 >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 http://www.matronics.c==================


[b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

dmasys

Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 22

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: turf runways

I operate my RV-10 in and out of a turf runway at my residential airpark on

a regular basis (WN29 - see

http://www.blueribbonfarmsassociation.com/airstrip.shtml ) and it is a fine

performer.  Occasionally the wheel pants get a little ding on the bottom,

but it is not from the grass but rather crossing ruts made by others.  The

RV-10 has such a luxurious amount of power that even soft turf runways are

not a problem unless you combine that with high altitude, short field, and

obstacles that would make a Maule driver have second thoughts.



And if you EVER DRIVE A CAR down our turf runway, especially at high speed,

there is going to be an angry mob taking photos and chasing you out of town.

Don't do it unless it is your privately owned turf runway.



-Dan Masys

RV10 N104LD - 660 hrs

RV12 N122LD - 180 hrs



 	  Quote: 	
		   Time: 07:58:39 PM PST US

 From: Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com>

 Subject: Re: turf runways


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   We're talking grass here.  If the grass is long enough to cause damage 

 to the pants it's probably long enough to prevent you getting in the air.

 The thing that destroys the pants are vibrations from many operations on 

 a rough runway.  Drive a car down the runway .... at 40 MPH or more 

 you'll feel roughness. 

 Linn ..... lots of ops on grass strips

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: Re: turf runways

No chance of damaging these pants...  



John

IMG_1936.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

57.83 KB

Viewed:

14518 Time(s)

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

jchang10

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 227

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: turf runways

Looks nice. Normally, the gear fairing is held in place by the lower 

pant. How did you keep the gear fairings in place without the pants?



Jae

do not archive



On 1/27/2014 10:54 AM, johngoodman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 No chance of damaging these pants...  [Wink]



 John



 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete and flying.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417689#417689





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1936_134.jpg


	




-- 

#40533 RV-10

First flight 10/19/2011

Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

do not archive

_________________
#40533 RV-10
First flight 10/19/2011
Phase 1 Done 11/26/2011

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: turf runways

I have flown into SC00 Triple Tree SC twice. We sat watching everyones pants shake like crazy and that runway is supposedly golf course smooth. If I lived on a grass strip I would beef up wheel pant mounts(switch to stainless) and fiberglass or just remove them. 



Maybe we will hear from Bill "Living the life in an airpark with turf" Watson. He might have to put some snow skis on this week.

_________________
Wayne G.

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: turf runways

 	  jchang10 wrote: 	
		  Looks nice. Normally, the gear fairing is held in place by the lower 

pant. How did you keep the gear fairings in place without the pants?



Jae

	




They actually stay on just fine. They are attached at the top, and the only thing I did different is taper them down as far as I could. They actually stay in place without any special work on the bottom. The nose strut is even easier, it already has screws to hold it in place. I did have to change the piano hinge set up on the mains - a pin to go up, and a pin to go down.

Without the pant brackets, and with hub caps, there's not much drag to worry about.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: turf runways

 	  johngoodman wrote: 	
		   	  jchang10 wrote: 	
		  Looks nice. Normally, the gear fairing is held in place by the lower 

pant. How did you keep the gear fairings in place without the pants?



Jae

	




They actually stay on just fine. They are attached at the top, and the only thing I did different is taper them down as far as I could. They actually stay in place without any special work on the bottom. The nose strut is even easier, it already has screws to hold it in place. I did have to change the piano hinge set up on the mains - a pin to go up, and a pin to go down.

Without the pant brackets, and with hub caps, there's not much drag to worry about.



John 	




What you lose in speed/time, guessing...6 kias/15 min per long xc would be nothing compared to time and materials repairing broke pants on a grass strip. I would take my pants off in a heartbeat to save $170/mo hangar rent and walk out to my hangar.

_________________
Wayne G.

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:30 am Post subject: Re: turf runways

If you go with the Desser Monster retreads you'll sit a bit higher and have more clearance.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:25 am Post subject: turf runways

Well, the Monster retreads do have a bigger diameter, but you can also add diameter without the extra wt of the thicker Monster tread by using 6:00X6 tires instead of the specified 15X^:00X6 tires Vans calls for. Or you could use 6:00X6 Monster retreads for a HiRider version.

 

On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:30 AM, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)>

 

 If you go with the Desser Monster retreads you'll sit a bit higher and have more clearance.

 

 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear.  FWF complete.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417867#417867

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 



 - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm

  

  [quote][b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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