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Magneto failure
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airmanv2

Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 49
Location: France - Normandy

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Hello , 

I have had a problem with magnetos on French CJ6. When back after flight i checked magnetos 1+2,2,1 before shut down. When i switched on 1 the engine stop., i turn back on 2 and 1+2 , made a try at 1400 rpm than 1860, check again and on 1 it stops; So slowing down and stop the engine.

What could be the problem and how to solve it?

Thank you for help

Bruno 

Normandy

LFAO

_________________
Fly safe

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:02 pm Post subject: Magneto failure

Sell CJ Buy Yak52.



On Mar 30, 2014, at 13:58, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello , 

 I have had a problem with magnetos on French CJ6. When back after flight i checked magnetos 1+2,2,1 before shut down. When i switched on 1 the engine stop., i turn back on 2 and 1+2 , made a try at 1400 rpm than 1860, check again and on 1 it stops; So slowing down and stop the engine.

 What could be the problem and how to solve it?

 Thank you for help

 Bruno 

 Normandy

 LFAO

 

 --------

 Fly safe

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421299#421299

_________________
Dawg

Etienne Verhellen

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 141
Location: Belgium

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: Magneto failure

 



I have to say ...  



Dwag has a point ...   



CJ and Yaks are very nice flying machines ...



But I prefer Yakovlevs Yak-52 and Yak-50        



http://forums.matronics.com/files/gmt_chronographs__pilot__beyond_aventure__etienne_verhellen__yakovlevs_173.jpg



Bruno, I sent you a message a little while ago ...



Did you receive it ??



Yak and CJ 'shot' from a good ol' Yak-52 : 

http://m8.i.pbase.com/o2/08/580408/1/137632288.wgrLFen9._AJB6830.jpg

http://m1.i.pbase.com/o2/08/580408/1/137545381.elEV1Llw._AJB6513.jpg

http://www.aviation-photocrew.com/Reports/2012/Photoflyingdays/foto-guest/27.jpg

...

C'est bÃ´ la Normandie ...

http://youtu.be/AmrCH0AhbDg

_________________
Yak-50 Display Pilot - Airshows - Ð¯ÐºÐ¾Ð²Ð»ÐµÐ² Ð¯Ðº-50
Yak-52 training anywhere - FI(A) Aerobatic Instructor - Specialised Yak-52.
https://www.yakoteam.com/
https://www.yakovlevs.com/the-team/pilots-and-crew/

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Magneto failure

Hi Bruno,

do another test run and see if there is misfire while the engine is not yet too hot. In case you have ignition trouble from the start you will no doubt find the dead mag. But if the motor runs OK  so there is no problem with ht wires or mag cap etc. . You could do a test flight around the airfield for at least half an hour to have a real warm engine and do a mag test in the air and see what happens if you want at least 80 % revs. If you get misfires you will have a duff coil/condenser and need a rewind. To do another check : Put the suspicious mag in an oven at 80 degrees C for an hour and test the sparks by flipping the drive shaft by finger: You should see a good spark of several mm, if you donÂ´t , well .....



   Vic

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:55 pm Post subject: Magneto failure

That could be as simple as a broken "P" lead wire.

Presumably you had a good mag. check before the last take-off but if you had 

a failing wire it could have finally separated in flight.

Take a good look at the wire going into the aft side of the mag.   If not 

obviously broken do a continuity test of the complete primary circuit.

If you are not fully familiar with magneto operation I would suggest that 

you contact a licensed aircraft technician to help you.



Walt



--

Vic

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Magneto failure

To be precise: That P-lead is an earthing wire. If it is broken you cannot stop the engine as the mag stays alive. But if it is broken and gets contact with earth somewhere then the mag does misfires or worse.



  Vic

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:02 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Many times it is also the high voltage "stick" going into the mag cap.  They may arc and thus cause the mag to appear dead.  Remove the mag cover and the distributor cap.  Then remove the high voltage stick.  It should pull right out.  Check for possible cracks.  You may want to just replace it.  The high voltage sticks in both the M14 M9F mags and Housai mags are interchangeable.

Dennis





        From: Walter Lannon <wlannon(at)shaw.ca>

 To:  yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2014 9:54 PM

 Subject: Re: Magneto failure

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca (wlannon(at)shaw.ca)>



That could be as simple as a broken "P" lead wire.

Presumably you had a good mag. check before the last take-off but if you had 

a failing wire it could have finally separated in flight.

Take a good look at the wire going into the aft side of the mag.   If not 

obviously broken do a continuity test of the complete primary circuit.

If you are not fully familiar with magneto operation I would suggest that 

you contact a licensed aircraft technician to help you.



Walt



--

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:59 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Bruno;



I gave you some very bad information yesterday.  Must have had a major brain 

fart!



A broken "P" lead wire will do just the opposite and will give you a 

continuously live. mag.



Some items to check for your problem:

1.   Contact points not opening due to excessive wear of the cam follower 

rubbing block

2.   Faulty connector between HT coil and the distributor.

3.   HT coil failure.



Sorry for the %&(at)#up

Walt



--

airmanv2

Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 49
Location: France - Normandy

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Magneto failure

Thank you for your advices, i will check what i can do and keep you informed about the result.

Doug Have Mag available if necessary ...

Best 

Bruno

_________________
Fly safe

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:50 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Walter, I am a tad bit confused by your posting.   How could a broken P lead cause the mag to stop working?    If it was broken and then happened to touch GROUND, then yes of course.   However, if it was just broken?   I would not think that would cause the mag to stop working.



Mark

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Sorry, never mind.... I should have read Dennis's posting first.



In the "what can be wrong with the mag that is not working, I have seen the following things cause that:



1.  Bad Ignition Coupler Tube (or Cigarette as Dennis mentioned)

2.  Internal gears break and mag coupler fails.   You will know this simply by pulling the mag cap off and rotating the engine.... mag will fail to rotate.

3.  Breaker points had metal fatigue and points no longer were gapped anywhere near correctly, mag fails to fire.   Check points for proper gap and any cracks in metal.

4.  Bad mag coil.  Very common.  Usually fails at higher temperatures first.  This was mentioned by someone else as well.

5.  Broken mag rotor point.  Rare.  Seen it happen only once.  Very easy to see.



Both of my mags failed (one at a time) very close to about 700 hours of use.  One with broken gears and coupler sheared, the other with a coil.  Whether the mag is on a CJ or a YAK, it is clearly an item that should not be expected to go 1000 hours.  If anyone has one that did, I suspect you were pretty lucky.



Mark

--

airmanv2

Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 49
Location: France - Normandy

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:33 am Post subject: Re: Magneto failure

I think I will need a new engine soon with low hours of work...

If one of you could know where i Can have one, export to France or UK 

I think i will be ready to take it

My engine is supposed to have 2400 hours .....

Best 

Bruno

_________________
Fly safe

dabear

Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA

Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Paging Richard Goode,  You have a customer up front.  Paging Richard

Goode....

Bear



--

airmanv2

Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 49
Location: France - Normandy

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Magneto failure

hello  every body, 

here are the pictures from today.

I ve checked the connector at the bottom and the back of the mag, i ve opened the cap but can't access to the rotor (wire to short) and i saw the ht stick but dont removed ...

which one is the mag 1 ? the left or the right when you seat inside???

Best 

Bruno

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1.37 MB

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IMG_5362.JPG

Description:

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1.58 MB

Viewed:

11220 Time(s)

_________________
Fly safe

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:54 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Bruno,

Did you remove the 4 bolts that hold the mag front cover plate to the 

mag?  If you did not, please remove them and the mag distributor cap 

along with the front cover plate and all the wires will lift completely 

off the magneto.  That will expose the rotor, points and high voltage stick.



Then check the high voltage stick.



Normally, mag 1 is the left magneto (when sitting in the cockpit looking 

at the engine) and mag 2 is the right mag.



Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 4/1/2014 1:36 PM, airmanv2 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 hello  every body,

 here are the pictures from today.

 I ve checked the connector at the bottom and the back of the mag, i ve opened the cap but can't access to the rotor (wire to short) and i saw the ht stick but dont removed ...

 which one is the mag 1 ? the left or the right when you seat inside???

 Best

 Bruno



 --------

 Fly safe





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421465#421465





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5375_292.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5362_843.jpg

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: Magneto failure

With all due respect, but I think that you should try and find someone who

is knowledgeable about these engines.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From the cockpit: left magneto is nr 1 (plugs on front of cylinders) and

right magneto is nr 2.
	




I've seen an engine where the P-leads to the mag switch were inversed. You

can check that with a multimeter.



When you open the top cover, you can lift the distribution cap, eventually

push the kabels a bit (or if absolutely necessary, remove things but that

should not be necessary).



You should be able to remove the cigarette without pulling too hard. If

not, it MAY be busted. If you force it, it WILL be busted.



At the backside, there are two screws that allow to remove the bottom

cover. From there, you have access to the coil.



It is not possible to make a diagnosis from only those pictures.



Particularly the coils: at the outside, they may seem OK (unless you find

traces of burning).



Very often, they give good sparks as long as they're not too hot

(typically after 20, 30 minutes). These mags do become quite hot when

flying, you'd be amazed.



When the distrution cap is lifted, you can check the points. Check if they

open/close properly. Check the spring on the points.



I wish you good luck, but honestly, if you've never done this before, or

if you're not really an experienced mechanic, you should try and find

someone who IS knowledgeable.



After all, it's your life that is at stake. Don't take any risks.

Ignorance kills.

Good luck,



Jan



On 01/04/14 20:36, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



hello  every body,

here are the pictures from today.

I ve checked the connector at the bottom and the back of the mag, i ve

opened the cap but can't access to the rotor (wire to short) and i saw

the ht stick but dont removed ...

which one is the mag 1 ? the left or the right when you seat inside???

Best 

Bruno



--------

Fly safe





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421465#421465





Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5375_292.jpg

http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5362_843.jpg

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: Magneto failure

As Dennis corrected: you also have too loosen the front plate, of course.

Jan

On 01/04/14 21:09, "Jan Mevis" <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

With all due respect, but I think that you should try and find someone who

is knowledgeable about these engines.

>From the cockpit: left magneto is nr 1 (plugs on front of cylinders) and

right magneto is nr 2.

I've seen an engine where the P-leads to the mag switch were inversed. You

can check that with a multimeter.

When you open the top cover, you can lift the distribution cap, eventually

push the kabels a bit (or if absolutely necessary, remove things but that

should not be necessary).

You should be able to remove the cigarette without pulling too hard. If

not, it MAY be busted. If you force it, it WILL be busted.

At the backside, there are two screws that allow to remove the bottom

cover. From there, you have access to the coil.

It is not possible to make a diagnosis from only those pictures.

Particularly the coils: at the outside, they may seem OK (unless you find

traces of burning).

Very often, they give good sparks as long as they're not too hot

(typically after 20, 30 minutes). These mags do become quite hot when

flying, you'd be amazed.

When the distrution cap is lifted, you can check the points. Check if they

open/close properly. Check the spring on the points.

I wish you good luck, but honestly, if you've never done this before, or

if you're not really an experienced mechanic, you should try and find

someone who IS knowledgeable.

After all, it's your life that is at stake. Don't take any risks.

Ignorance kills.

Good luck,

Jan

On 01/04/14 20:36, "airmanv2" <bruno.blanchard2(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>

>

>hello  every body,

>here are the pictures from today.

>I ve checked the connector at the bottom and the back of the mag, i ve

>opened the cap but can't access to the rotor (wire to short) and i saw

>the ht stick but dont removed ...

>which one is the mag 1 ? the left or the right when you seat inside???

>Best 

>Bruno

>

>--------

>Fly safe

>

>

>Read this topic online here:

>

>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421465#421465

>

>

>Attachments: 

>

>http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5375_292.jpg

>http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5362_843.jpg

>

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:27 am Post subject: Magneto failure

Just for info and not for Bruno..... but ....



Mag 1 and 2 on the YAK-52 and the YAK-50 are reversed.... from the factory.  I.E.  What is "1" on the YAK-52, is "2" on the YAK-50.



Who'da thunk?  



Mark



--

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:45 am Post subject: Magneto failure

That is true, Mark. It was like that also on my Yak 50.

I was changed years ago, because it was thought to be an error.

The 50 system is more logical though because in that way, the mag switch

points to the magneto.

Now I'm used to it, so I'll leave it. For the PILOT it does not make much

difference, but the mechanic unfamiliar with the Russian Yak 50 may be

puzzledŠ



Jan



On 01/04/14 21:23, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD"

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:



[quote]

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



Just for info and not for Bruno..... but ....



Mag 1 and 2 on the YAK-52 and the YAK-50 are reversed.... from the

factory.  I.E.  What is "1" on the YAK-52, is "2" on the YAK-50.



Who'da thunk?  



Mark



--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: Magneto failure

For me the #1 reminds me of an "L"  and thus the Left mag and since  the #2 is the Right mag that means it fires the Rear plugs.  The 50 would  have screw me up!  

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  In a message dated 4/1/2014 3:45:47 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jan.mevis(at)informavia.be writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: Jan Mevis    <jan.mevis(at)informavia.be>



That is true, Mark. It was like that    also on my Yak 50.

I was changed years ago, because it was thought to be an    error.

The 50 system is more logical though because in that way, the mag    switch

points to the magneto.

Now I'm used to it, so I'll leave it. For    the PILOT it does not make much

difference, but the mechanic unfamiliar    with the Russian Yak 50 may be

puzzledÅ 



Jan



On    01/04/14 21:23, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR,    WD"

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List    message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR,    WD"

<mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>



Just for info and    not for Bruno..... but ....



Mag 1 and 2 on the YAK-52 and the    YAK-50 are reversed.... from the

factory.  I.E.  What is "1"    on the YAK-52, is "2" on the YAK-50.



Who'da thunk?     



Mark



-----Original    Message-----

From:    owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com]    On Behalf Of A. Dennis

Savarese

Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014    2:54 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re:    Magneto failure



--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis    Savarese"

-->    <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



Bruno,

Did you    remove the 4 bolts that hold the mag front cover plate to    the

mag?  If you did not, please remove them and the mag    distributor cap

along with the front cover plate and all the wires will    lift completely

off the magneto.  That will expose the rotor,    points and high voltage

stick.



Then check the high    voltage stick.



Normally, mag 1 is the left magneto (when    sitting in the cockpit looking

at the engine) and mag 2 is the right    mag.



Dennis

A. Dennis    Savarese

334-285-6263

334-546-8182    (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On    4/1/2014 1:36 PM, airmanv2 wrote:

> --> Yak-List message posted    by: "airmanv2"

> -->    <bruno.blanchard2(at)gmail.com>

>

> hello  every    body,

> here are the pictures from today.

> I ve checked    the connector at the bottom and the back of the mag, i ve

>opened    the cap but can't access to the rotor (wire to short) and i saw

>the    ht stick but dont removed ...

> which one is the mag 1 ? the left or    the right when you seat inside???

> Best

>    Bruno

>

> --------

> Fly    safe

>

>

> Read this    topic online here:

>

>    http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421465#421465

>

>

>    Attachments:

>

>    http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5375_292.jpg

>    http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_5362_843.jpg




  ies  ay                 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS               - List Contribution Web Site  p;                             
	


	


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