Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - airplast pv50 problem

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

airplast pv50 problem

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

g-fizy

Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 46
Location: uk

Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi all i am having a few problems with my pv50 prop ,it does not seem to move ,take off is ok but as soon as i start to get to about 500 ft the engine speed seems to go uncontrolled ,the controller seems not to be doing anything 

it displays a change in pitch but i do not think  that the actual prop pitch motor is moving , the smart avionics  controller manual says you can adjust the prop with out the engine running ,I am guessing that if you put the controller in manual mode and adjust the  pitch the motor should move,but nothing happens ,please can some one confirm this ,as i dont fancy fault finding with a spinning prop ,or has anyone got any ideas on fault finding .Please let me know 



thanks jim

kjburns(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Jim,

 

Recent experience and observations with a different type of constant speed prop controller not going back to fully fine has persuaded me to ground our aircraft, remove the offending article and replace with a direct switch control unit with only manual control.

 

If you get stuck in coarse pitch and the constant speed unit is saying you are fully fine by steady light or other means you could end up over-running your landing strip ,with no go round option.

 

We check full take off /climb revs are achieved  as a landing check.

 

When doing our testing we found the prop would re set to fine pitch when the avionics were  switched of and back on.

 

Then on one test it failed on that mode.

 

Further investigation showed that switching relays were not completing the circuit, yet could be heard to be clicking.

 

Our teams skills and knowledge came to the best solution for us and our planned use of the aircraft was to bin the electronics and go with a simple manual switched unit, and ground the aircraft until it arrives.

 

Regards,

Confirmed Ludite,

Kevin

 



     

   From: g-fizy <jim.davis1(at)me.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2013, 23:04

 Subject: airplast pv50 problem

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "g-fizy" <jim.davis1(at)me.com (jim.davis1(at)me.com)>



Hi all i am having a few problems with my pv50 prop ,it does not seem to move ,take off is ok but as soon as i start to get to about 500 ft the engine speed seems to go uncontrolled ,the controller seems not to be doing anything 

it displays a change in  pitch but i do not think  that the actual prop pitch motor is moving , the smart avionics  controller manual says you can adjust the prop with out the engine running ,I am guessing that if you put the controller in manual mode and adjust the  pitch the motor should move,but nothing happens ,please can some one confirm this ,as i dont fancy fault finding with a spinning prop ,or has anyone got any ideas on fault finding .Please let me know 



thanks jim



--------

owner g-fizy





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412427#412427



;    (And Get Some AWESOME FREE .matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/connbsp;             -Matt Dralle, List =   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

_ref="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matron===================

 

  

  

 [quote][b]

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:30 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Jim,

   Hard to diagnose your problem with the info you have given, but I would like to venture the suggestion that once you have fixed the problem (whatever that may turn out to be) that you refrain from using the PV 50 in auto, except perhaps for take off and landing.  

   The drive motor used on the PV50 is a beautiful Swiss made motor but was designed for use on 9 volt systems.  In the PV 50 installation it runs on 12 volts.  experience has shown that the motors do not last that long (perhaps 300 hrs if you are lucky). This short life is much further exacerbated if the controller is run in auto as it will be constantly making small corrections winding the blades back and forward.

   As for your problem I think the first thing to try is establish if the motor is still functioning. To establish this remove your spinner to gain access to the motor. It is the long 1â€ approx. dia cylinder which sticks out forward of everything else.  On the front end there are two terminals. Before proceeding to the next stage ensure you have isolated the prop electrics from the a/c electrical system.  Ie switched it off and pulled the breaker.

   Now use a little 9 volt dry cell battery and connect it to the terminals of the motor.  No matter the polarity. The motor should run if it is good.  Caution not to run it for more than a second or so.  Try reversing the polarity it should run the other direction if the motor is good.  

   If the motor is good we need to search further for your problem.  If the motor does not run then we know what we need to replace.

   If you wish please advise results.

   

 

   Pete Jeffers   LAA Inspector for the Europa Club

 

   

     From: g-fizy (jim.davis1(at)me.com)

 Sent: â€ŽThursdayâ€Ž, â€Ž7â€Ž â€ŽNovemberâ€Ž â€Ž2013 â€Ž23â€Ž:â€Ž04

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 

   

 

     --> Europa-List message posted by: "g-fizy" <jim.davis1(at)me.com>

 

 Hi all i am having a few problems with my pv50 prop ,it does not seem to move ,take off is ok but as soon as i start to get to about 500 ft the engine speed seems to go uncontrolled ,the controller seems not to be doing anything 

 it displays a change in pitch but i do not think  that the actual prop pitch motor is moving , the smart avionics  controller manual says you can adjust the prop with out the engine running ,I am guessing that if you put the controller in manual mode and adjust the  pitch the motor should move,but nothing happens ,please can some one confirm this ,as i dont fancy fault finding with a spinning prop ,or has anyone got any ideas on fault finding .Please let me know 

 

 thanks jim

 

 --------

 owner g-fizy

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412427#412427

 

 

 

 ===========================bsp;     -- Please Support Your Lists This Mon November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on

      * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.c;                     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ===================================================================================================================

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

     

 

   Sent from Windows Mail

   

 

 

 

 

   --

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:07 am Post subject: Re: airplast pv50 problem

Hi All.

I have a PV 50, an a small problem ,I think but not sure yet, may be normal functionality .

However in manual mode with the +/_ switch engine stationary on the ground I can see the blades change angle from fine to coarse, if you don,t want constant speed control in flight you can set this mode.

I have spoken to Smart electronics, and plan to send my unit to them for Free updating of the soft wear which has the new Take off mode setting.

He just said sent Â£10 to cover the return postage and packing, very nice helpful chap.

Regards.

Alan

g-fizy

Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 46
Location: uk

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:35 am Post subject: Re: airplast pv50 problem

Thanks for your replies 

Peter "as soon as i can i will be trying out your very help full list and i will post my findings"

Alan"mine does not move when i do that ,so Peter maybe right my motor may have failed "

kevin ,I am interested in the controller you have picked ,as i would rather just have a simple switch ,like i have seen on some europa aircraft

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Alan,<?xml:namespace prefix = "o" ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

   Just for your information,  Arplast do not recommend operating the pitch change whilst the prop is stationary.  Too much load on its little motor.

   One further point for Jim.  There are at least two different auto controllers for the PV50.  One is from Smart Avionics and the other is from Arplast themselves.  So if you are trying for information you need to know which controller you have.  As the person who probably fitted your controller, Gerry can probably advise which one you have.

   Pete

   PS I have used PV50 now for about 1500 hours.  During that time i have changed two motors that went dead. I only have the manual control switch for it and find prop control very easy effective and reliable.  The only down side to manual as opposed to auto control is that you do not have overspeed protection for your engine.

    

   --

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:55 am Post subject: Re: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Peter.

Many thanks for that piece of information, Peter, I,d better not do that test with the engine stationary,

 

I have the Smart version, can't find my manual, but I thought I read somewhere in the manual you still had over speed protection in Manual Mode, and pitch control was by using the +/- toggle switch, if you select  Disable it shows OFF ad you lose overspeed protection, I will have to look for my manual, I could well be wrong , but it will make me do a bit of revision and look things up again the old memory not so good in retirement.



Regards 

Alan

pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:23 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Alan



This from SmartAvionics website.  Rev limiting is enabled in manual.



Pete



"The controller provides the following modes of operation:



Disabled

    The automatic control is completely disconnected, the +/- toggle switch

directly controls the propeller pitch. 



Manual

    The automatic control is connected but propeller pitch control is via

the +/- toggle switch. Automatic rev limiting is enabled. If the mode button

is now pressed briefly, the mode changes to cruise. 



Cruise

    The controller endevours to keep the RPM within a "dead band" around the

target cruise RPM by adjusting the propeller pitch. The +/- toggle switch

can be used to adjust the target RPM in steps of 50 RPM. Pressing the mode

button briefly, toggles the mode back to manual. 



Climb

    Similar to cruise mode, except that the preset "Climb RPM" is used.

Pushing the mode button for 1/2 of a second or more selects this mode.

Pushing the mode button briefly, reverts to cruise mode. 



Takeoff

    Similar to climb mode, except that the preset "Takeoff RPM" is used.

Pushing the mode button for 1 second or more selects this mode. Pushing the

mode button briefly, reverts to climb mode. 



Operation of the CSC-1/P is very straightforward and places little workload

on the pilot. Before takeoff, takeoff mode is selected by pressing the mode

button for about a second. Once safely clear of the ground, climb mode is

selected with a quick press of the mode button. When the desired cruise

altitude is reached, a further quick press of the mode button selects cruise

mode and the throttle can then be adjusted to the cruise position. In the

cruise, the throttle works as a 'speed lever'. On descending to land,

takeoff mode is reselected in case a go-around is necessary."



--

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Alan,

   I am sorry I may have accidentally misled you wrt overspeed protection.  Let me clarify what I meant.

   If you operate the PV50 (or any other prop for that matter) using a smart controller in manual then you are protected from overspeeding.  If however (and this was in response to a comment in Jim Davis's original letter) you are just using a manual coarse/fine switch without smart controller then you have no protection.

   Trouble is that there are several  different set ups and I was responding to two letters from different people at the same time.

   Pete

 

 

   --

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:32 pm Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Thanks for that Pete,

   My comment about no overspeed protection was associated with the pre Smart controller set up.  Ie when all we had was a coarse/fine switch without clever electronics.

   Pete J

 

 

 

   --

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Peter.

It does get a bit confusing on the forum some times, all clear now.



My PV 50 seems to behaving different and I can't make out why.

I rarely use the turbo, I set take off prefixed at 5600 rpms, then I twig it back to 5450 then roll, once airborne I twig back to 5000 rpms, at level off 

I press the cruise button and it drops back to 4200 rpms. 

Lets say I then twig up to 5000 then climb then twig up a bit more say 5250 then level off , press cruise again it should drop back to 4200, but sometimes it goes to the last setting ie, 5000 in this case, but this is not always the case sometimes it will go back to 4200.

Something is not quite right, or I,v got finger trouble somewhere along the line.

Regards

Alan

john.greenhalgh1(at)sky.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:46 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Just a thought - the brushes to the motor may need replacing.  John g-wiki



 [quote][b]

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:08 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi John,

   You would not make that suggestion if you had seen the motor!!

   No offense meant.

   Pete

   PS the brushes are minute

 

 

 

   --

kennethatkinson178(at)bti
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi, 

PV50-If you find your problem is the pitch-change motor,and you find a supplier,I would like to have the details so that I can buy a spare

It is possible to fit a resistor in the pink supply wire to the motor.It is 2 ohms-10W-RSpart no;252-2489.

I love the Arplast/Smart Avionics propeller/controller system although it does take time to understand and setup correctly-particularly the coarse pitch setting  so as to allow a safe rate of climb during a go-around.

I suspect that the microswitches may need changing in time and a faulty one could be your problem.

I have fitted the recommended fine and coarse mechanical stops to limit pitch runaway in case of switch or screw  failure.

 

Cheers Ken Atkinson G-CEKV Mono 019

     

   From: g-fizy <jim.davis1(at)me.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, 7 November 2013, 23:04

 Subject: airplast pv50 problem

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted  by: "g-fizy" <jim.davis1(at)me.com (jim.davis1(at)me.com)>



Hi all i am having a few problems with my pv50 prop ,it does not seem to move ,take off is ok but as soon as i start to get to about 500 ft the engine speed seems to go uncontrolled ,the controller seems not to be doing anything 

it displays a change in pitch but i do not think  that the actual prop pitch motor is moving , the smart avionics  controller manual says you can adjust the prop with out the engine running ,I am guessing that if you put the controller in manual mode and adjust the  pitch the motor should move,but nothing happens ,please can some one confirm this ,as i dont fancy fault finding with a spinning prop ,or has anyone got any ideas on fault finding .Please let me know 



thanks jim



--------

owner g-fizy





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412427#412427http://www.matronics.com/c               -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> h=

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

g-fizy

Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 46
Location: uk

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:44 am Post subject: Re: airplast pv50 problem

Fixed ,,Thanks for all of the advice I tested the prop motor using a pp9 battery and it worked fine ,it turns out ,that when the feed wife broke ,my actions to repair the wire caused the wire rod to be incorrectly  located so no power was going to the motor ,i had to cycle the prop so i could relocate it correctly ,the method of connecting the wire to the moving part is not the best ,l will have to keep an eye on that one 



regards jim

pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 1:31 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Hi Jim



Have you ever managed to get any sense out of Arplast?



I quite fancy a PV50 if I ever need to replace my NSI but the Arplast 

website is unhelpful and I understand from others that the company never 

respond to enquiries.



Regards



Pete

G-RMAC #109



On 18/05/14 09:44, g-fizy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Fixed ,,Thanks for all of the advice I tested the prop motor using a pp9 battery and it worked fine ,it turns out ,that when the feed wife broke ,my actions to repair the wire caused the wire rod to be incorrectly  located so no power was going to the motor ,i had to cycle the prop so i could relocate it correctly ,the method of connecting the wire to the moving part is not the best ,l will have to keep an eye on that one



 regards jim



 --------

 owner g-fizy





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423395#423395

g-fizy

Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 46
Location: uk

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:11 am Post subject: Re: airplast pv50 problem

Hi pete I have not tried after reading some not very nice comments about the company ,i have read that the australian agent is very helpfull but the lack of backup worries 



All I can say is when it works it works it's like changing gear in the air lol



If I had to replace it I would look at the backup first 



Regards jim



me  	  pete(at)lawless.info wrote: 	
		  Hi Jim



Have you ever managed to get any sense out of Arplast?



I quite fancy a PV50 if I ever need to replace my NSI but the Arplast 

website is unhelpful and I understand from others that the company never 

respond to enquiries.



Regards



Pete

G-RMAC #109



On 18/05/14 09:44, g-fizy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Fixed ,,Thanks for all of the advice I tested the prop motor using a pp9 battery and it worked fine ,it turns out ,that when the feed wife broke ,my actions to repair the wire caused the wire rod to be incorrectly  located so no power was going to the motor ,i had to cycle the prop so i could relocate it correctly ,the method of connecting the wire to the moving part is not the best ,l will have to keep an eye on that one



 regards jim



 --------

 owner g-fizy





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423395#423395

pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:37 am Post subject: airplast pv50 problem

Jim



My NSI CAP140 is VP.  With a 912ul and only 80hp it is an essential to 

operate from short strips.



I have found good support from AirMaster in NZ, they provided me with 

one of their spinners plus all the ancillaries (and fitting suggestions) 

to replace the non symmetrical Europa classic offering.  It fitted my 

NSI perfectly.  Trouble is NZ is as far from the UK as you can get and 

the concept of having to get support for Arplast from Australia, when 

you could drive to the factory in France in just a few hours, seems 

absolutely crazy. I am just surprised there is no UK agent since Jerry 

packed up a few years back.  There seem to be plenty of Arplast used by 

the microlight folks so they must get support from somewhere.



Regards



Pete

On 18/05/14 12:11, g-fizy wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi pete I have not tried after reading some not very nice comments about the company ,i have read that the australian agent is very helpfull but the lack of backup worries



 All I can say is when it works it works it's like changing gear in the air lol



 If I had to replace it I would look at the backup first



 Regards jim



 me

 pete(at)lawless.info wrote:

> Hi Jim

>

> Have you ever managed to get any sense out of Arplast?

>

> I quite fancy a PV50 if I ever need to replace my NSI but the Arplast

> website is unhelpful and I understand from others that the company never

> respond to enquiries.

>

> Regards

>

> Pete

> G-RMAC #109

>

> On 18/05/14 09:44, g-fizy wrote:

>

>>   

>>

>>   Fixed ,,Thanks for all of the advice I tested the prop motor using a pp9 battery and it worked fine ,it turns out ,that when the feed wife broke ,my actions to repair the wire caused the wire rod to be incorrectly  located so no power was going to the motor ,i had to cycle the prop so i could relocate it correctly ,the method of connecting the wire to the moving part is not the best ,l will have to keep an eye on that one

>>

>>   regards jim

>>

>>   --------

>>   owner g-fizy

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>   Read this topic online here:

>>

>>   http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423395#423395

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>



 --------

 owner g-fizy





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423398#423398

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum