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n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.c
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 Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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Howdy,
If you don't want to read something that could be construed as
critical of this device, please don't read further.
I have been flying with a Navaid Devices autopilot for over seven
years in my RV-6. I have loved and hated it. It is admirably simple
and has always worked well in most ways, as in it is a good wing-
leveler when not tracking and tracks well all the time. It may not
be right on the center line, and you may have to use the trim knobs
once in a while, but that does not really matter to me.
What I don't like about it is that it has never showed close to
accurate standard rate turn information and the centering has never
been stable. I think the reason it doesn't show accurate standard
rate turn information is that that is derived from the gyro working
against two separate springs that may not have the same tension
because of different tensions in the springs themselves and because
the gyro may not be centered with respect to the spring mounting.
When I first complained about this, Navaid Devices suggested I open
the unit and fix it, which I have done several times, thereby my
familiarity with it.
During straight flight the center LED should be lit, but this also
changes so that after a while there may be two or three LEDs lit,
showing a turn in straight flight. The unit still works when this
happens, after being corrected for by trim knobs, but I don't like
it. To fix this I remove and open the unit and move the gyro a bit
in its mount. Then I power it up on the bench and see if it shows
straight, if not, I iterate the process until it does. Then I fix
the gyro in the mount with a bit of glue and reinstall it in the
airplane. It shows straight for a few flights then gets off again.
When I read that the Trio EZ Pilot is a direct replacement for the
Navaid Devices, with a supplied conversion cable, and saw how much
more sophisticated the EZ Pilot is, I was sold. I read one account
of the conversion being done in fifteen minutes, but I don't
understand this. I installed my EZ Pilot last night, and indeed it
was very quick, however there was no GPS data getting to the unit.
Well, I did further research and discover that MY Navaid Devices uses
left right steering information only and the EZ Pilot uses serial
data from the GPS. So although the supplied cable hooks up the power
and servo correctly, I now need to wire an additional cable from the
GPS to the EZ Pilot. Is this because I have an earlier Navaid
Devices? Do any of them use serial data? I have found no mention in
the Trio literature of this problem.
Since I had no GPS data I did the calibrations that could be done
without it. One calibration is to center the servo. This requires
that you trim the airplane so it doesn't want to go left or right,
then engage the servo and trim it for wings level. While doing this
I would fly straight for a while, then would turn around, so as to
not get too far away from the airport, then continue the operation.
I am sure the EZ Pilot works great when it has a GPS signal, but I
found it was kind of scary without it. For instance, I could have
it trimmed for straight flight, do a moderate to steep turn to
another heading, level off, engage the servo and have it abruptly
enter a steep turn, e.g. 40 degree bank, then instead of working its
way back to straight flight, the bank angle would gradually increase,
until I disengaged the servo again at about 60 degrees of bank.
During the steep turn, the pseudo turn coordinator would be showing
straight flight.
Will I be happy with this unit. I think so, but now I realize the
pseudo turn coordinator does not sense yaw, on its own, and is not
suitable for emergency use, without GPS input. That is disappointing
to me, because that is something the crude Navaid Devices unit does
well.
This is hinted at slightly in the Trio literature. They talk about
how gravity is not used to help erect the indication. I think they
need to emphasize the problem more clearly.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
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Albert Gardner
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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A buddy of mine has a Trio unit and I have a Navaid-both installed in
RV-9A's. We flew over to El Cajon (KSEE) to see Trio and the differences was
explained this way:
Navaid uses a GPS conversion unit (Smart Coupler) either internally or
externally to decode the GPS data stream into left/right steering signals.
The advantage of this is that you can also use the left/right steering
signal from a VOR to drive the Navaid, selecting one or the other with a
switch.
Trio uses only the GPS data but can't be driven by the VOR signals. It seems
more stable and intercepts/follows a course better than mine, is far lighter
and doesn't use mechanical gyros.
Although Trio offers a cable to replace the Navaid they (Trio) offers their
own servo and thinks it is better. Initially I installed my Navaid where the
Turn Indicator usually is in the panel but later moved it and installed a
Turn Indicator.
I like mine, he likes his, but in my RV-10 I'm installing a TruTrak.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
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_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV |
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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Larry Pardue wrote:
| Quote: | When I read that the Trio EZ Pilot is a direct replacement for the
Navaid Devices, with a supplied conversion cable, and saw how much more
sophisticated the EZ Pilot is, I was sold. I read one account of the
conversion being done in fifteen minutes, but I don't understand this. I
installed my EZ Pilot last night, and indeed it was very quick, however
there was no GPS data getting to the unit. Well, I did further research
and discover that MY Navaid Devices uses left right steering information
only and the EZ Pilot uses serial data from the GPS. So although the
supplied cable hooks up the power and servo correctly, I now need to
wire an additional cable from the GPS to the EZ Pilot. Is this because
I have an earlier Navaid Devices? Do any of them use serial data? I
have found no mention in the Trio literature of this problem.
|
Larry, your Navaid installation is a bit unusual in that you have not
been using it in conjunction with a GPS. All the Navaid installations I
have seen in the past many years have included the "Smart Coupler" which
allows the Navaid to also use the NMEA data feed from a GPS. For those
of us (nearly all Navaid installations??) who used the Navaid with a
GPS, the Trio conversion is indeed a very quick deal since no additional
wiring needs to be added. I suspect this is not mentioned in the Trio
literature because the Navaids being run with *only* a nav radio are so
rare.
| Quote: | Since I had no GPS data I did the calibrations that could be done
without it. One calibration is to center the servo. This requires that
you trim the airplane so it doesn't want to go left or right, then
engage the servo and trim it for wings level. While doing this I would
fly straight for a while, then would turn around, so as to not get too
far away from the airport, then continue the operation. I am sure the
EZ Pilot works great when it has a GPS signal, but I found it was kind
of scary without it. For instance, I could have it trimmed for
straight flight, do a moderate to steep turn to another heading, level
off, engage the servo and have it abruptly enter a steep turn, e.g. 40
degree bank, then instead of working its way back to straight flight,
the bank angle would gradually increase, until I disengaged the servo
again at about 60 degrees of bank. During the steep turn, the pseudo
turn coordinator would be showing straight flight.
|
You will be very impressed at how well the EZ-Pilot operates once it is
connected to a GPS. More than likely, if you allowed the EZ-Pilot to
initialize on the ground while the plane was motionless (it has to
figure out what is "level") the non-GPS operation of the unit would have
been MUCH better. I have run my EZ-Pilot for extended periods of time
after tuning off the GPS and it does a credible job of keeping the plane
level and going in a pretty straight line.
| Quote: |
Will I be happy with this unit. I think so, but now I realize the
pseudo turn coordinator does not sense yaw, on its own, and is not
suitable for emergency use, without GPS input. That is disappointing to
me, because that is something the crude Navaid Devices unit does well.
|
Once again, if your GPS goes belly-up in-flight, the EZ-Pilot should be
more than capable of helping you fly the plane to a safe landing.
| Quote: | This is hinted at slightly in the Trio literature. They talk about how
gravity is not used to help erect the indication. I think they need to
emphasize the problem more clearly.
|
This probably receives little "emphasis" since GPS is now so reliable
and also because the EZ-Pilot is NOT advertised as being a primary
flight instrument.
Give us another report after you accumulate a few hours with the
EZ-Pilot! 
Sam Buchanan
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n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.c
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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On Jun 23, 2006, at 9:36 AM, Larry Pardue wrote:
I have already gotten a call from Trio about my observations. They
were very nice and gave me some things to check.
| Quote: |
When I read that the Trio EZ Pilot is a direct replacement for the
Navaid Devices, with a supplied conversion cable, and saw how much
more sophisticated the EZ Pilot is, I was sold. I read one account
of the conversion being done in fifteen minutes, but I don't
understand this. I installed my EZ Pilot last night, and indeed it
was very quick, however there was no GPS data getting to the unit.
Well, I did further research and discover that MY Navaid Devices
uses left right steering information only and the EZ Pilot uses
serial data from the GPS. So although the supplied cable hooks up
the power and servo correctly, I now need to wire an additional
cable from the GPS to the EZ Pilot. Is this because I have an
earlier Navaid Devices? Do any of them use serial data? I have
found no mention in the Trio literature of this problem.
|
Trio, agreed that the serial cable (one wire only) needs to be run.
I don't believe that is mentioned anywhere. They did mention that if
you have been running the Porcine interface, it is a plug-in conversion
| Quote: |
Since I had no GPS data I did the calibrations that could be done
without it. One calibration is to center the servo. This requires
that you trim the airplane so it doesn't want to go left or right,
then engage the servo and trim it for wings level. While doing
this I would fly straight for a while, then would turn around, so
as to not get too far away from the airport, then continue the
operation. I am sure the EZ Pilot works great when it has a GPS
signal, but I found it was kind of scary without it. For
instance, I could have it trimmed for straight flight, do a
moderate to steep turn to another heading, level off, engage the
servo and have it abruptly enter a steep turn, e.g. 40 degree bank,
then instead of working its way back to straight flight, the bank
angle would gradually increase, until I disengaged the servo again
at about 60 degrees of bank. During the steep turn, the pseudo
turn coordinator would be showing straight flight.
|
It turns out this behavior may have been because I was turning the
unit on and off during the calibration (per instruction). Has to do
with gyro bias data being stored in memory. Trio says the EZ Pilot
DOES sense yaw. Trio said if you have been flying normally and lose
the GPS data, the pseudo turn coordinator should be accurate. They
gave me some ways to check if my unit is defective or not. I will
report back.
I am sure happy with the service and concern of the company.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
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n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.c
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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On 6/23/06 10:31 AM, "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Larry Pardue wrote:
>
<snip>
> When I read that the Trio EZ Pilot is a direct replacement for the
> Navaid Devices, with a supplied conversion cable, and saw how much more
> sophisticated the EZ Pilot is, I was sold. I read one account of the
> conversion being done in fifteen minutes, but I don't understand this. I
> installed my EZ Pilot last night, and indeed it was very quick, however
> there was no GPS data getting to the unit. Well, I did further research
> and discover that MY Navaid Devices uses left right steering information
> only and the EZ Pilot uses serial data from the GPS. So although the
> supplied cable hooks up the power and servo correctly, I now need to
> wire an additional cable from the GPS to the EZ Pilot. Is this because
> I have an earlier Navaid Devices? Do any of them use serial data? I
> have found no mention in the Trio literature of this problem.
Larry, your Navaid installation is a bit unusual in that you have not
been using it in conjunction with a GPS. All the Navaid installations I
have seen in the past many years have included the "Smart Coupler" which
allows the Navaid to also use the NMEA data feed from a GPS. For those
of us (nearly all Navaid installations??) who used the Navaid with a
GPS, the Trio conversion is indeed a very quick deal since no additional
wiring needs to be added. I suspect this is not mentioned in the Trio
literature because the Navaids being run with *only* a nav radio are so
rare.
|
Sam,
I have been using my Navaid with a GPS. What may be a bit unusual is that
it is a panel mount GPS that has left right output capability. That made it
capable of driving the Navaid without a coupler. This, theoretically, also
made it possible to switch back and forth between VOR/Loc driving the Navaid
to GPS driving it, although I was never successful getting the VOR to work
with it.
I plan to do the additional wiring this evening to make the GPS work, and am
looking forward to testing the turn coordinator function, without turning
the unit on and off. I wonder if anyone else has done careful testing in
this mode?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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Gary.A.Sobek
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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Sam and Larry:
I just changed out my Navaid for a Trio last weekend. My Navaid had the
smart coupler that did not work well so I used the CDI outputs from the GPS.
It would track VOR or GPS by switching the ACU to the GPS or NAV. I wired
the GPS Serial port #2 to the Navaid. I used Serial port #1 from the GX60 to
the SL30. I could only program one serial port to MAP so either I had
serial data to the SL30 or the Navaid and not both. I was too lazy to change
the wiring so used the Navaid with the CDI inputs. The GX60 was set to 0.3
NM full scale to get acceptable operation. I never had the Navaid working
correctly on the serial data port.
The Navaid did not track a course the last two times I used it. I ordered
the Trio to replace it. I still needed to make one wiring change to get the
serial data to the Trio. I removed my serial port wire from pin 22 and
spliced it with pin 5 at the GX60. The Trio worked right out of the box.
I ordered the Trio on Tuesday. Had it on Thursday. Installed it on Saturday
and test flew it. Last Sunday was a calibration flight and it is now ready
for a trip next weekend.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,869 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
On 6/23/06 10:31 AM, "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> wrote:
>
>
> Larry Pardue wrote:
>>
> <snip>
>> When I read that the Trio EZ Pilot is a direct replacement for the
>> Navaid Devices, with a supplied conversion cable, and saw how much more
>> sophisticated the EZ Pilot is, I was sold. I read one account of the
>> conversion being done in fifteen minutes, but I don't understand this. I
>> installed my EZ Pilot last night, and indeed it was very quick, however
>> there was no GPS data getting to the unit. Well, I did further research
>> and discover that MY Navaid Devices uses left right steering information
>> only and the EZ Pilot uses serial data from the GPS. So although the
>> supplied cable hooks up the power and servo correctly, I now need to
>> wire an additional cable from the GPS to the EZ Pilot. Is this because
>> I have an earlier Navaid Devices? Do any of them use serial data? I
>> have found no mention in the Trio literature of this problem.
>
> Larry, your Navaid installation is a bit unusual in that you have not
> been using it in conjunction with a GPS. All the Navaid installations I
> have seen in the past many years have included the "Smart Coupler" which
> allows the Navaid to also use the NMEA data feed from a GPS. For those
> of us (nearly all Navaid installations??) who used the Navaid with a
> GPS, the Trio conversion is indeed a very quick deal since no additional
> wiring needs to be added. I suspect this is not mentioned in the Trio
> literature because the Navaids being run with *only* a nav radio are so
> rare.
>
Sam,
I have been using my Navaid with a GPS. What may be a bit unusual is that
it is a panel mount GPS that has left right output capability. That made it
capable of driving the Navaid without a coupler. This, theoretically, also
made it possible to switch back and forth between VOR/Loc driving the Navaid
to GPS driving it, although I was never successful getting the VOR to work
with it.
I plan to do the additional wiring this evening to make the GPS work, and am
looking forward to testing the turn coordinator function, without turning
the unit on and off. I wonder if anyone else has done careful testing in
this mode?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List |
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sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: Trio EZ Pilot - Long |
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Larry Pardue wrote:
| Quote: | Sam,
I have been using my Navaid with a GPS. What may be a bit unusual is that
it is a panel mount GPS that has left right output capability. That made it
capable of driving the Navaid without a coupler. This, theoretically, also
made it possible to switch back and forth between VOR/Loc driving the Navaid
to GPS driving it, although I was never successful getting the VOR to work
with it.
|
Oops, I forgot about the panel mount GPS's being able to send out
right/left corrections instead of NMEA.
I used the Smart Coupler with my Navaid and fed it with both a Lowrance
Airmap 100 and a KX125. The Navaid would drive the plane with either
data source but it was interesting to see how much more accurate the
handheld GPS NMEA data was than the VOR-sourced data. But it was neat
being able to track a localizer approach with the KX125. Of course,
more-or-less the same thing can be done with a handheld GPS, or at
least, somebody told me it could be done........ 
Larry, once you get accustomed to the EZ-Pilot, toss one of the new Trio
EZ-2 vertical autopilots in your plane. That little puppy will *really*
spoil you!
Sam Buchanan
| | - The Matronics RV-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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