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Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201

I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when it fact you did not.   I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52?  Possible I guess.  That said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.  



The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc.   There have been many cases where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?"  I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN.  After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.  



Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.   



By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people. 



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK  N66PW



--

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mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:59 am Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201

The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade others trying to share good ideas.   I agree with you that the shape of the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all.  Staying current and proficient is your best defense.  I never said knobs were a cure.  Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things happen.  No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for preventing it.  Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me again,  Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich.  AMF

On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when it fact you did not.   I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52?  Possible I guess.  That said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.  

 

 The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc.   There have been many cases where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?"  I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN.  After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.  

 

 Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.   

 

 By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people. 

 

 Mark Bitterlich 

 N50YK  N66PW

 

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201

Etienne,



PLEASE TAKE THIS CONVERSATION OFF LIST.



The Yak List is not here for your personan agenda.



Thank you.   Further such communication will be copied to the List owner with a complaint.



Mark Bitterlich



________________________________



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Etienne Verhellen [janie(at)yak52.fr]

Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 5:29 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014






1. Yak-52 belly landings in Belgium ... continued.

2. Mr Jan MEVIS from Belgium ...



If you don't feel like reading this ...

Good for you, go for a walk and enjoy the day.

If you continue, don't come back complaining afterwards.



THIS is THE internet !!!!!  And a 'free' world ...



===============================================

Regarding the last Yak-52 belly landing in Belgium (EBNM) last Sunday,

some interesting informations to be shared on the Yak-List.



https://www.flickr.com/photos/96986043(at)N08/14044351540/in/photostream/lightbox/

And this is straight from the horse's mouth  [Exclamation]  [Embarassed]

__________________________________________________________



Thank you for your message, no one hurt.



There was a gear indication problem through the flight

and I cycled the gear twice.



There was then an engine problem with CHT going to 300 Â°C

and oil to 120Â°C.



As these are values that are close to the engine seizing I needed to land ASAP.



The rest is history.



The only damage to the aircraft is the prop everything else is fine.



There is a lot of oil on the right wing so I think the engine will need examining.



There was not much oil left when I checked it after the flight so let's see what is found.



Best regards

Arthur.

_____________________________________________________________



Humm ... Quite a few issues here ... To say the least  [Exclamation]  [Exclamation]  [Exclamation]



But ...



# What kind of indication problems [Question]  [Rolling Eyes] Light bulbs  [Question] Soldiers  [Question]

    What did cycling the gear twice achieve ??



# CHT going to 300 degrees and oil temperature to 120 degrees  [Exclamation]  [Exclamation]

    http://fanairplane.free.fr/affichage2.php?img=7323

     Indeed well into the red and a serious problem with your M-14P my friend !



# The only damage to the aircraft is the prop ... Really  [Question]  [Question]



# Everything else is fine ....  [Exclamation]  [Exclamation] YOU MUST BE KIDDING  [Evil or Very Mad]



 [Arrow]  [Arrow]



We are voting in Belgium and in Europe today ...



My friend Jan Mevis wrote above :

PS: I will not respond on eventual replies from Etienne Verhellen. GOOD.



Maybe he will also stop with his petty complaints to the world !



But since we are voting today Mr Jan MEVIS' friends need to know he is politically active,

stood for election a few times and consequently people

everywhere have the right to know who he is and the values he represents.



He is a member of a extreme-right fascist Belgian political party called the Vlaams Belang (VB) :

http://www.vlaamsbelang2006.be/1/3/60/540

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaams_Belang

http://www.resistances.be/vmo2.html

http://rechtsactueel.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/roger5.jpg?w=640&h=480

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Flemish_Militants

Jan MEVIS' militant website :

http://www.vlaamsemilitantenorde.com<http://www.vlaamsemilitantenorde.com/>

Chilling to say the least ...

Time to call a spade a spade.



Tomorrow Monday, the 26th of May 2014 is also Memorial Day.

Let's remember the men who died while serving in the United States and Allied

Armed Forces in Europe fighting the Nazi regime.

Thanks to their sacrifice we are able to vote again today.

(And fly Russian Yaks freely).

THANK YOU.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423761#423761

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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201

Bear,



Discussions of incidents is one thing.   Using the list as a public agenda to attack specific people is another thing.



The former is good.   The latter is not to be encouraged or tolerated.



Mark



________________________________

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Byron M Fox [byronmfox(at)gmail.com]

Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 2:10 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201



Ditto, Bear!



Blitz Fox

415-307-2405



On May 24, 2014, at 6:22 AM, "Walter Lannon" <wlannon(at)shaw.ca<mailto:wlannon(at)shaw.ca>> wrote:



Well said Randy



Walt



From: DaBear<mailto:dabear(at)damned.org>

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:47 AM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201



So I think there are multiple parts to this.



This *IS* a forum for debate.  If we can’t sit around and debate points to find the best answer, this forum is useless.  If we expect someone to come with a question or comment and we should just all nod our heads in agreement to the first answer, etc.  Then what service are we bringing?  Debate is a good thing, personal attacks are NOT.



When someone posts a different opinion, they are NOT attacking someone, questioning their man/woman-hood/parentage, etc.  It’s a different opinion.  We need to stop getting our underwear in a bunch from some perceived slight because of how the text is read.



Example; some people get personally upset at curse words, others use them like adjectives throughout their speech.  Go to NYC and the F bomb is used in saying good morning and how the )(*)& are you?   Down south, that would be frowned upon in a huge way.



The words are just bunches of letters and you should understanding the meaning before getting upset.  And in the case of the forum, they are bunches of letters and bunches of words.  People typically respond on this forum quickly, without a lot of proof reading and without worry in how their quickly worded response will be received.   Take 80-95% of what is on this forum as people trying to help.  Otherwise, you might as well get off the internet because it is this way across thousands of forums.



As to this thread, 11 skydivers didn’t die because of a gear up landing.  We’ve discussed multiple options to prevent gear up landings including experimental squat switches, horns, and modified knobs.  While all those are good ideas of things to help, they will NOT prevent ALL gear up landings.

Sooo…



Give each other a hug, say you are sorry and let the spirited debate continue.



Or not…



Bear



From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of doug sapp

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 1:12 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201



Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original poster who I am sure only had the best intentions?  If we keep this up the list will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all".  After all is said and done, what have you accomplished?



Doug Sapp



On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh <mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.com<mailto:mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.com>> wrote:




The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade others trying to share good ideas.   I agree with you that the shape of the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all.  Staying current and proficient is your best defense.  I never said knobs were a cure.  Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things happen.  No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for preventing it.  Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me again,  Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich.  AMF

On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil<mailto:mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>> wrote:



[quote] 



 I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when it fact you did not.   I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52?  Possible I guess.  That said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.



 The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc.   There have been many cases where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?"  I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN.  After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.



 Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.



 By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.



 Mark Bitterlich

 N50YK  N66PW



 --

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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