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fly4grins(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:02 am Post subject: alternate batteries |
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[quote] I happened to be exploring some alternate battery battery options on the 'net just yesterday, when something interesting popped out at me. Only one referenced being a replacement for portable jump start units, and was marketed under the Schumacher label. Does anyone know if there is some difference in these batteries that might make them more appropriate for engine cranking service, or is it all just advertising?[b]
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: alternate batteries |
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On 5/24/2014 12:01 PM, GLEN MATEJCEK wrote:
| Quote: | | Quote: | | I happened to be exploring some alternate battery battery options on the 'net just yesterday, when something interesting popped out at me. Only one referenced being a replacement for portable jump start units, and was marketed under the Schumacher label. Does anyone know if there is some difference in these batteries that might make them more appropriate for engine cranking service, or is it all just advertising? |
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Look at internal impedance/resistance numbers. Easy to find for PC680; sometimes harder to find for brand x. Comparing batteries with the same ampere-hour ratings, batteries intended for relatively low current, long term discharge will have higher internal impedance than batteries intended for starting. Bob alluded to this in a recent post about a new battery he tested, that would last almost 'forever' running avionics, but couldn't supply enough power to start an engine.
With the typical brand x SLA batteries I've seen over the last few years, up-sizing the AH rating by a few points (18 AH to 22AH, for example) gets the internal resistance low enough to match the higher priced PC680's starting ability. Going from 18 to 22 AH doesn't typically increase the size, at least not enough to matter. A lot of the brand x 18AH batteries are slightly smaller than a PC680.
FWIW,
Charlie
[quote][b]
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fly4grins(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: Alternate batteries |
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Howdy-
Perhaps I phrased my question poorly. Were reliable internal impedance numbers consistently and readily available, identifying viable alternate batteries would be a snap. However, and as noted, finding the internal impedance of a battery can turn into a time consuming wild goose chase pretty quickly. If there were an accepted performance standard or threshold for so-called "jump start batteries", our task would be greatly simplified.
| Quote: | ***snip***
>
> I happened to be exploring some alternate battery battery options
> on the 'net just yesterday, when something interesting popped out
> at me. Only one referenced being a replacement for portable jump
> start units, and was marketed under the Schumacher label. Does
> anyone know if there is some difference in these batteries that
> might make them more appropriate for engine cranking service, or
> is it all just advertising?
>
>
Look at internal impedance/resistance numbers. Easy to find for PC680;
sometimes harder to find for brand x. Comparing batteries with the same
ampere-hour ratings, batteries intended for relatively low current, long
term discharge will have higher internal impedance than batteries
intended for starting. Bob alluded to this in a recent post about a new
battery he tested, that would last almost 'forever' running avionics,
but couldn't supply enough power to start an engine.
|
***snip***
[quote][b]
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: Alternate batteries |
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On 5/25/2014 12:09 PM, GLEN MATEJCEK wrote:
| Quote: | Howdy-
Perhaps I phrased my question poorly. Were reliable internal impedance numbers consistently and readily available, identifying viable alternate batteries would be a snap. However, and as noted, finding the internal impedance of a battery can turn into a time consuming wild goose chase pretty quickly. If there were an accepted performance standard or threshold for so-called "jump start batteries", our task would be greatly simplified.
| Quote: | ***snip***
>
> I happened to be exploring some alternate battery battery options
> on the 'net just yesterday, when something interesting popped out
> at me. Only one referenced being a replacement for portable jump
> start units, and was marketed under the Schumacher label. Does
> anyone know if there is some difference in these batteries that
> might make them more appropriate for engine cranking service, or
> is it all just advertising?
>
>
Look at internal impedance/resistance numbers. Easy to find for PC680;
sometimes harder to find for brand x. Comparing batteries with the same
ampere-hour ratings, batteries intended for relatively low current, long
term discharge will have higher internal impedance than batteries
intended for starting. Bob alluded to this in a recent post about a new
battery he tested, that would last almost 'forever' running avionics,
but couldn't supply enough power to start an engine.
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***snip***
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Your followup question folds back on itself, and is basically unanswerable. Marketers say whatever they want to say, within the confines of their bosses at that particular company. There have been 'jump start' *assemblies* on the market that contained batteries labeled, for example, as 18 AH, that had guts in the battery that were really only around 12 AH. So 'suitability' is whatever the bosses say is suitable, when you're reading a spec sheet or advertising brochure.
There are batteries designed for starting, and there are batteries designed for sustained loading at a much lower rate, as in a UPS or scooter. Some of the 'lower rate' type batteries will actually work fine for starting. The only way to know for sure on any particular battery is to test for yourself, or trust the word of someone who's already 'been there & done that'.
I've used 'brand x' 18 AH & 22 AH batteries of both known & unknown internal impedances for over a decade with good service, in the deep south, with temps ranging from below freezing to over 100 degrees F. Most of that time, the battery was on the hot side of the firewall(s). Someone else has posted that he didn't have good service at temps that might have been 5-10 degrees higher. Don't forget that there are many many factors affecting whether a product works well.
I try to find the internal impedance number if I can before I buy a particular battery, but I've bought them without knowing, & have usually gotten good service. As I said in an earlier post, the best inexpensive battery I've found is labeled **12220, with various prefixes depending on the seller. It's the same form factor as the 18 AH Odyssey. Bonus is an extra 4 AH if you have an electrically dependent a/c.
Charlie
[quote][b]
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