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Transponder "Cert" question

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planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Transponder "Cert" question

Hey Guys,

                  I just had a "FLASH"  ( not a HOT one )

   

   My Transponder still hasn't been certified....I have to steer clear until it is.....

   

   I have my "Repairmans Cert" for my bird....

   

   Here's the question ( if you don't know.....Why answer ? )

   

   

   Could I fly in an area where the transponder and encoding Alt is not required.....ask a TOWER  what "Alt"info they are getting on their screen  to cross check if that's my Alt , and ask them if they are recieving my transponder signal OK.....and "sign off" the transponder MYSELF....

   

   Now, if it's not correct, I'd probly have to get it Certified by somebody who knew what they were doing....

   

   But, after two years, with this same proceedure could "I" sign off the RE: Cert

   

   

                                                       Gotta Fly...

                                                                        Mike in MN

   

   

  PS..... John, Your still my Hero ! 

   

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            Firestar I&II Forum

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kolb_Firestar/

   

   

  My Web Site:

  http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html

   

   

  Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...

   



			

---------------------------------

 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Transponder

I like your thinking Mike Where did you get your tansponder, how much was it ?

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Transponder

Hi,

    I bought it thru Aircraft Spruce.....It's the Narco 155 Transponder w/AR850 encoding Alt... Total package was around $1,500 bucks....



 I'm under Class B, and it's getting BIGGER ( KMSP )

  The page of my website with the system is:



http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/LSXXIX.html

 There was a little more to put it in than I thought.....BUT, it wasn't hard

 Gotta Fly...

 Mike in MN / N381PM

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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Transponder "Cert" question

If you are in flight and your altimeter has an error, and your Mode C 

has an error, asking ATC how things are doing really doesn't tell you 

much, because you have no known constant to work from. You need to work 

from a known constant.

 

Try this: land at an airport with an approach control, and go to a point 

on the runway or taxiway where the altitude MSL is known exactly, (it's 

on the approach plate) then set your altimeter to the barometric 

pressure on the current ATIS, and then ask ATC what your Mode C readout 

is. (ground control can read it off the tower BRITE scope) Now you know 

how accurate your Mode C is, and also know how accurate your altimeter 

is. If either one is off, you need to go to an avionics shop.



Assuming they are good, climb to 5,000' (check current ATIS for the 

barometric pressure)  and ask ATC what your Mode C says, and it agrees - 

good. Try it again at 10,000' and ask them again, and if it still 

agrees, you are probably a safe user of the ATC Mode C system.



Probably not a legal way of pleasing the paper-pushers (should your log 

books be examined,) but since you brought it up...



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

FAA ATC (retired)



Mike Pierzina wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hey Guys,

                  I just had a "FLASH"  ( not a HOT one )

   

   My Transponder still hasn't been certified....I have to steer clear until it is.....

   

   I have my "Repairmans Cert" for my bird....

   

   Here's the question ( if you don't know.....Why answer ? )

   

   

   Could I fly in an area where the transponder and encoding Alt is not required.....ask a TOWER  what "Alt"info they are getting on their screen  to cross check if that's my Alt , and ask them if they are recieving my transponder signal OK.....and "sign off" the transponder MYSELF....

   

   Now, if it's not correct, I'd probly have to get it Certified by somebody who knew what they were doing....

   

   But, after two years, with this same proceedure could "I" sign off the RE: Cert

   

   

                                                       Gotta Fly...

                                                                        Mike in MN

   

   

  PS..... John, Your still my Hero ! 

   

  .

  .

  .

  .

  .

   

            Firestar I&II Forum

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kolb_Firestar/

   

   

  My Web Site:

  http://www.geocities.com/planecrazzzy/Planecrazzzy.html

   

   

  Sometimes you just have to take the leap and build your wings on the way down...

   



			

---------------------------------

 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:26 pm Post subject: Transponder "Cert" question

Mike Pierzina wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hey Guys,

                  I just had a "FLASH"  ( not a HOT one )

   

   My Transponder still hasn't been certified....I have to steer clear until it is.....

   

   I have my "Repairmans Cert" for my bird....

   

   Here's the question ( if you don't know.....Why answer ? )

   

   

   Could I fly in an area where the transponder and encoding Alt is not required.....ask a TOWER  what "Alt"info they are getting on their screen  to cross check if that's my Alt , and ask them if they are recieving my transponder signal OK.....and "sign off" the transponder MYSELF....

   

   Now, if it's not correct, I'd probly have to get it Certified by somebody who knew what they were doing....

   

   But, after two years, with this same proceedure could "I" sign off the RE: Cert

   

   

                                                       Gotta Fly...

                                                                        Mike in MN




	


I'm afraid that's one of the areas where being an experimental doesn't 

get you a pass on the regs. Logic is probably that if it's not done 

right, you could tangle with another a/c while under ATC's control.



Try the EAA for chapter & verse.



Charlie

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

Hi Richard,

                 As far as knowing my Altitude, My GPS will give me that...



 But you make a good point to check it's "High & Low"...Thanks



 Gotta Fly...

 Mike in MN

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 PS  I like the way a message is posted "Right away" , before it would take about 45 min ....

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[/quote]If you are in flight and your altimeter has an error, and your Mode C 

has an error, asking ATC how things are doing really doesn't tell you 

much, because you have no known constant to work from. You need to work 

from a known constant.

Last edited by planecrazzzy on Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Transponder "Cert" question

Hi Mike,



        My avionics guy says you have to be certified to make a log entry on 

the pressure instruments, avionics, etc.  Not just any A&P can do it, nor 

one with a repairman's certificate.  I'd leave the log blank and claim 

innocence, rather than make a questionable entry.



Ed in JXN

MkII/503

Do not archive.

---

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: Transponder "Cert" question

It's now 10 years since I've had a tpdr Certified, so stds may have  

changed. Basically the shop places a box with one side open, and  

containing an ant. around the ship's beacon ant. The box ant. is  

connected to a test set via a coax. Tests will cover both Mode A  

(identication) and Mode C (altitude). You won't have to worry about  

Mode S...yet. With the tpdr On and set to a given code, the test set  

transmits an interrogation code train at a known pwr level. The  

ship's tpdr will  detect this interrogation and reply with its code  

setting. The test set can determine the tpdr's rec. sensitivity,  

verify its code detection, reply pulse train, and ck its pwr output  

and frequency. The altitude encoder is ckd by connecting a calibrated  

pressure source to the coder's input. The set's press. input is  

varied, and the tpdr's alt. reply is ckd for accuracy...+/- 100'. An  

additional test covers the IDENT function. Tech makes dated entry in  

airframe log book.  Altho it takes less than hr., charges (use to)  

run abt $150...EVERY TWO YEARS!



  I worked on design of first test set in '50...all vacuum tubes...AN- 

UPM-4.



In case anyone is interested (still awake) the Mode C alt replies are  

folded biquinary for 100's, and Grey binary for 1000's.



Somewhere I have a history of IFF/Beacons I wrote almost 50 yrs ago,  

updated, including solving the Mystery of the Ghost Idents.



Bob N.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

[quote="Mike Pierzina"]Hi Richard,

                 As far as knowing my Altitude, My GPS will give me that...



 

Mike:  Might not be a good idea to depend on GPS altitude read out.  From my limited experience with GPS altitude, it ain't so accurate.  Everything else works good though.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

Thanks Guys,

                    After all the replies, I think there's no way of getting around the "CERT" other than a Certified inspector......( $125 - 250  is what I've seen the price range )

  I still gotta learn how to do "THE QUOTE" thingy.....I butchered it pretty  bad.....???



Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

 	  Quote: 	
		  I still gotta learn how to do "THE QUOTE" thingy.....I butchered it pretty bad.....??? 



Gotta Fly... 

Mike in MN 

	




Mike:  Me too.  Practicing now to see if I have gotten it right this time.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

 	  Quote: 	
		  Mike: Me too. Practicing now to see if I have gotten it right this time. 	




Mike:  Highlight and copy what you want to quote.

          

          Then click on the "quote" box above the msg box. 



           Paste the reference.



           Click on the "quote" box again.



           Drop down a line or two and start your reply.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

I keep getting it backwards....lets try this...



( my message was in Blue and the quote wasn't )



After a couple of "Previews" , I'm getting it.... Nice feature...





 	  Quote: 	
		  Highlight and copy what you want to quote. 



Then click on the "quote" box above the msg box. 



Paste the reference. 



Click on the "quote" box again. 



Drop down a line or two and start your reply.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Transponder

 	  Quote: 	
		  After a couple of "Previews" , I'm getting it.... Nice feature... 	




Shoot man!!!  We be catching on.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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