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Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

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genie(at)swissmail.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

For several months my RV-6 has experienced starting problems. At first 

go the engine would hardly turn as there did not seem to be enough power 

from the starter motor. After repeated attempts things would 

progressively improve until there was enough power to start the engine. 

Since the end of last month the starter motor has simply not been able 

to provide enough power to start my engine.



I removed the starter motor and had it tested. It jumped to life when 

exposed to enough voltage. Therefore this was apparently not the problem.



Measurements initially seemed to indicate that the battery was OK. 

However, later it appeared that the battery could not provide enough 

tension. I removed it and measured it. It provides almost 11.7 V at 

present. I reckon that the battery is, if not the only problem, then one 

of the problems.



A fellow aircraft owner told me that he believes that the problem is 

with the relay. That is why, according to him, in the past I initially 

had problems in starting but after several attempts I succeeded. Could 

this in your opinion be the case? Does anyone by chance know where can I 

find a replacement relay, which companies make suitable relays and what 

their part numbers are?



As for my battery, it is an Odyssey PC 680 by Enersys. When in the 

hangar it is always kept under tension by a battery charger. Is this 

battery the optimal choice for a Lycoming O-320 powered RV-6 or RV-6A? 

Do you know whether any other batteries would be just as good or better? 

I have found sources for such a battery.



Thanks.



George Nielsen

RV-6 PH-XGN

The Hague, the Netherlands



P.S. I have sent this on both the RV-6 and Lycoming lists. Please excuse 

me if you receive the same message more than once.

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jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

George,

The PC 680 should be fine - lots of RVers use them. However, a resting battery voltage of 11.7 volts is a bad thing.  That is essentially a dead battery.  A healthy battery should have a resting voltage > 12.5 volts.

I would start with a new battery.  If that does not solve the problem we can look at the start solenoid (relay).





Also, be advised that some battery charger/maintainers do not have the proper output for maintaining this type of battery and will actually decrease battery life.  There was a thread here on the Aeroelectric List some months ago where BobN analyzed the charge curves of a few battery  maintainers and recommended one.  I know it was a Schumacher and I think is was model number 1562A (around $20). (somebody please correct me if that's wrong)



-Jeff



 

     On Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:03 AM, George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org> wrote:

  

  



 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Nielsen <genie(at)swissmail.org (genie(at)swissmail.org)>



For several months my RV-6 has experienced starting problems. At first 

go the engine would hardly turn as there did not seem to be enough power 

from the starter motor. After repeated attempts things would 

progressively improve until there was enough power to start the engine. 

Since the end of last month the starter motor has simply not been able 

to provide enough power to start my engine.



I removed the starter motor and had it tested. It jumped to life when 

exposed to enough voltage. Therefore this was apparently not the problem.



Measurements  initially seemed to indicate that the battery was OK. 

However, later it appeared that the battery could not provide enough 

tension. I removed it and measured it. It provides almost 11.7 V at 

present. I reckon that the battery is, if not the only problem, then one 

of the problems.



A fellow aircraft owner told me that he believes that the problem is 

with the relay. That is why, according to him, in the past I initially 

had problems in starting but after several attempts I succeeded. Could 

this in your opinion be the case? Does anyone by chance know where can I 

find a replacement relay, which companies make suitable relays and what 

their part numbers are?



As for my battery, it is an Odyssey PC 680 by Enersys. When in the 

hangar it is always kept under tension by a battery charger. Is this 

battery the optimal choice for a Lycoming O-320 powered RV-6 or RV-6A? 

Do you know whether any other  batteries would be just as good or better? 

I have found sources for such a battery.



Thanks.



George Nielsen

RV-6 PH-XGN

The Hague, the Netherlands



P.S. I have sent this on both the RV-6 and Lycoming lists. Please excuse 

me if you receive the same message more than nbsp;  --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:18 am Post subject: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

Hi George,



Since no one else has replied yet, I'll offer my thoughts.



It is my understanding that the PC680 does not respond well to constant

charge.  I'm not sure if this battery is recoverable, but you can try.  You

may find some methods on the net, or someone else may chime in here.  



What is the open circuit voltage?



What is the charger's voltage output?



What is the battery charge about an hour after you remove the charger?



How old is it?



Has it bulged, enlarged or deformed in anyway?



Have you contacted the manufacturer?



The PC680 has a reputation as a very good battery for our applications.

However, if you find you need to replace it, consider one of the new LiFePo

such as EarthX and save about 11 LB.  I am.



Bevan

Canada



--

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

At 02:04 PM 6/12/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  George,



 The PC 680 should be fine - lots of RVers use them. However, a resting battery voltage of 11.7 volts is a bad thing.  That is essentially a dead battery.  A healthy battery should have a resting voltage > 12.5 volts.



 I would start with a new battery.  If that does not solve the problem we can look at the start solenoid (relay). 	


   Try using jumper cables to put a car battery in

   parallel with your ship's battery . . . if you see

   a marked improvement, then load check the battery.

   No improvement, start looking at interconnecting

   hardware and wiring.



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Also, be advised that some battery charger/maintainers do not have the proper output for maintaining this type of battery and will actually decrease battery life.  There was a thread here on the Aeroelectric List some months ago where BobN analyzed the charge curves of a few battery maintainers and recommended one.  I know it was a Schumacher and I think is was model number 1562A (around $20). (somebody please correct me if that's wrong) 	


   That's the one. I've had good luck with the Battery

   Tenders too. I don't recall if I mentioned my disappointment

   with the charger-gods at Schumacher with the performance of

   an XC75W charger a couple weeks ago



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



   This 'super whippy' product was supposed to massage any of

   the common technologies. In fact, when I tried the Standard

   and AGM modes during some battery tests, the thing peaked

   out at well over 15 volts . . . only the GEL mode proved to

   be a profile I'd want to use with ANY battery. I've still

   got it on my list of things to do to forward this data to

   Schumacher with some hope of receiving clarification.



 

 

   Bob . . .

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toddheffley

Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 8
Location: Fort Worth Texas

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

Boy.



Did I ever suffer hard with the same squawk in a c182.   Hope this helps.



I tested the battery voltage WHILE CRANKING with a simple Simpson volt meter.  The meter would dip from 12.5ish to 10ish under heavy load.



That seemed resonable.



Then I tested the starter voltage (post of the starter to case of the starter)  WHILE CRANKING. It was dipping to 5.5vdc on the compression strokes.



Unreasonable.



I put the meter from the battery + terminal to the starter + terminal.



During cranking there was .75vdc of "drop" from the battery to the starter post.



Seemed resonable.



Then I connected the volt meter from the - terminal of the battery to the case of the starter.



WHILE CRANKING there was 5.5 v of "loss".



Further troubleshooting lead to the fact that the small straps at each lord mount were the only engine ground..... no where near enough.



Big fat ground wire...... big fat smile.



Since then one of my troubleshooting guideposts is........ use HIGH CURRENT to troubleshoot high current failures.



Cautions apply.... you are spinning the meat clever out the front while troubleshooting.......murphy.



Hope it helps

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Last edited by toddheffley on Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:46 am; edited 1 time in total

rv6awingman(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:42 am Post subject: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320

Just 2 weeks ago I replaced a 6 mo old PC680 in my RV-6A with 0-360 Lyc.   The engine had started fine the weekend before but now it wouldn't even hold the starter engaged. My panel volt meter showed 8.6v. when resting.  I do not use a wall charger as I fly often enough.   So I took the battery out and returned to the store where purchased.  Later, after they "fully charged it"  it was holding voltage at 13.3V yet wouldn't put out half of its CCA rating.  Solution was a new battery under warranty replacement.

 YMMV

Marty

 Time: 03:26:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> Subject: Re: Starting an RV-6 with a Lycoming O-320 At 02:04 PM 6/12/2014, you wrote: >George,> >The PC 680 should be fine - lots of RVers use them. However, a>resting battery voltage of 11.7 volts is a bad thing.  That is >essentially a dead battery.  A healthy battery should have a resting >voltage > 12.5 volts.> >I would start with a new battery.  If that does not solve the>problem we can look at the start solenoid (relay).    Try using jumper cables to put a car battery in    parallel with your ship's battery . . . if you see   a marked improvement, then load check the battery.    No improvement, start looking at interconnecting   hardware and wiring. >Also, be advised that some battery charger/maintainers do not have >the proper output for maintaining this type of battery and will>actually decrease battery life.  There was a thread here on the >Aeroelectric List some months ago where BobN analyzed the charge >curves of a few battery maintainers and recommended one.  I know it >was a Schumacher and I think is was model number 1562A (around $20). >(somebody please correct me if that's wrong)    That's the one. I've had good luck with the Battery   Tenders too. I don't recall if I mentioned my disappointment    with the charger-gods at Schumacher with the performance of   an XC75W charger a couple weeks ago Emacs!    This 'super whippy' product was supposed to massage any of    the common technologies. In fact, when I tried the Standard   and AGM modes during some battery tests, the thing peaked    out at well over 15 volts . . . only the GEL mode proved to   be a profile I'd want to use with ANY battery. I've still    got it on my list of things to do to forward this data to   Schumacher with some hope of receiving clarification. Bob



  [quote][b]

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