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Trim damper and sticking the top on.

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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

Yesterday I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane. Â But before i stick the top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.

 



I have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think. Â All the tail assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics. Â The coax for the antenna. Â Installed the battery the main gear and the flap actuator system, set the wing incidence...

 



Anything else I should have done?

 



I have one specific question...how tight should the pitch trim damper be? I cant see in the manual that specifies.



 

And anyone have any advice for the best method for sticking the top on?

 



thanks in advance

 Will





 



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

 

  [quote][b]

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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

Sorry everyone

 I saw a mail from April 2009 from Fred asking the same question and gerry coles' response refering to mail from Andy. Â  The correct answer is 5 Kg +/- 1 Kg.

 



Will



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

 



 



On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 6:34 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] Yesterday I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane. Â But before i stick the top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.

  



I have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think. Â All the tail assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics. Â The coax for the antenna. Â Installed the battery the main gear and the flap actuator system, set the wing incidence...

  



Anything else I should have done?

  



I have one specific question...how tight should the pitch trim damper be? I cant see in the manual that specifies.

 

 

And anyone have any advice for the best method for sticking the top on?

  



thanks in advance

  Will





  



William Daniell



LONGPORT

[url=tel:%2B57%20310%20295%200744]+57 310 295 0744[/url]

 

 [b]

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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

Will,

It is good to cleo the top on temporarily and mark any join on the top canoe that you can prepare with ease when the top is off.

Probably done that already.

Cheers,

Tim



Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch,  8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)

Ph 64 3 3515166

Mob 0210640221





On 15/06/2014, at 9:34 am, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Yesterday I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane.  But before i stick the top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.

 



I have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think.  All the tail assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics.  The coax for the antenna.  Installed the battery the main gear and the flap actuator system, set the wing incidence...

 



Anything else I should have done?

 



I have one specific question...how tight should the pitch trim damper be? I cant see in the manual that specifies.



 

And anyone have any advice for the best method for sticking the top on?

 



thanks in advance

 Will





 



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  



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a-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

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//forums.matronics.com

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ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:35 am Post subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

Will

Have you adjusted the pitch control limits to give 5 degrees nose down deflection and 13 deg. up?

Pretty awkward to do with the top on but easy at this stage

Graham





        From: William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 15 June 2014, 0:34

 Subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

  

 

Yesterday I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane.  But before i stick the top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.

 



I have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think.  All the tail assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics.  The coax for the antenna.  Installed the battery the main gear and the flap actuator system, set the wing incidence...

 



Anything else I should have done?

 



I have one specific question...how tight should the pitch trim damper be? I cant see in the manual that specifies.



 

And anyone have any advice for the best method for sticking the top on?

 



thanks in advance

 Will





 



William Daniell



LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

 

  [quote]ht; http://www.matronics.com/contrib===============


[b]

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:11 am Post subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

Will,



As tempting as it may be to cross the “top bonding threshold”, in my case I was content to mate top to canoe with clecos spaced at 12” o.c. until the very last possible moment…that is…until I had scoured the build manual thoroughly and literally could NOT find ANYTHING whatsoever which did not ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE the top to have been bonded on in order to accomplish it. And you have to be thinking of things you want to do with your build which are in addition to the standard kit which may have no mention in the manual.

When I say use clecoes, I’m not relying upon the dozen little threaded temporary fasteners which came w/ the kit, because IMO if you defer top bonding beyond the stage cited in the manual, it is critical to use a sufficient number of fasteners to ensure that the geometry of the fuselage is fixed and not subject to wobble or twist. I had bought (I think 100) of the push pull clecos which are popped in and out w/ a simple little proprietary tool.

Doing this allowed me, for example, to fully install all my fuel pumps and plumbing, strobe power supply and wiring with ease…I even sprayed my Zolatone finish w/ the canoe upside down and was able to hit the wells in the baggage bay without contortions…(of course, I had to go back and hit the joint between top and canoe later but that was a snap and the color blended perfectly).

Obviously, when approaching the various tasks out of sequence, one must keep in mind that things must be positioned for future maintenance, etc. 

But I recall marveling on a number of occasions how challenging many little tasks would have been if I had not followed the sequence that I had.

When you finally reach the point of actual bonding, a tip I learned from Kingsley Hurst was to make up, in advance, some little fiberglass “washers”…I think I made up some w/ 2 layers of BID and some w/ 4 layers of BID. So at every cleco, I would use a washer of the required thickness to bring the exterior surface of the top and canoe flush w/ one another thus saving the weight, time, and trouble of applying and sanding an excessive amount of filler to eliminate the appearance of a seam. I noted at each cleco the number and thickness of washers required. Of course this technique relies on the ability of Redux / flox to bridge the resulting gap resulting from the thickness of the washers, so use plenty of material to ensure the seam is fully filled and bonded.

Good luck,

Fred

On Jun 14, 2014, at 4:34 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Yesterday I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane.  But before i stick the top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.

I have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think.  All the tail assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics.  The coax for the antenna.  Installed the battery the main gear and the flap actuator system, set the wing incidence...

Anything else I should have done?

	


 [quote][b]

- The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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richard collings

Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 73
Location: warwickshire england

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:19 am Post subject: Trim damper and sticking the top on.

Will

 I understand your concern and agree with everything Fred has said, with  hindsight I would have fitted/glued the headlining material  and cut and trial fitted the carpets etc.

  More importantly I temporally mounted on both  sides of the canoe a 25mm wide strip of 3mm steel on the inside of the mating  flange with 5mm cheese headed bolts every 150mm,  I then lowered the top on  and into position made clearing holes so that I could remove the bolts/strips  later after final gluing, and the used bolts with plate washers tapped into the  steel strip instead of the clecoes.  I used clecoes round the tail as per  the manual. This allowed me to fit and refit the top and align everything before  we finally glued the top on. This method reduces the humps you tend to create  along the joint line and subsequently the amount of filler needed to smooth it  out later. I was also able to make L brackets to support the baggage bay  bulkhead and trial fit before the final gluing. One last thing, if like me you  find it necessary to take the top on and off many times, I mackled up a simple  overhead winch to do the job [there is no weight but its very unwieldy] and from  memory as soon as glue gets involved the simplest of tasks can grow horns.  

 Good luck.

 Richard  

  From: Fred Klein (fklein(at)orcasonline.com) 

 Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2014 5:10 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Trim damper and sticking the top  on.

  



 Will,    

 As tempting as it may be to cross the “top bonding threshold”, in my case I  was content to mate top to canoe with clecos spaced at 12” o.c. until the very  last possible moment…that is…until I had scoured the build manual thoroughly and  literally could NOT find ANYTHING whatsoever which did not ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE  the top to have been bonded on in order to accomplish it. And you have to be  thinking of things you want to do with your build which are in addition to the  standard kit which may have no mention in the manual.

  

 When I say use clecoes, I’m not relying upon the dozen little threaded  temporary fasteners which came w/ the kit, because IMO if you defer top bonding  beyond the stage cited in the manual, it is critical to use a sufficient number  of fasteners to ensure that the geometry of the fuselage is fixed and not  subject to wobble or twist. I had bought (I think 100) of the push pull clecos  which are popped in and out w/ a simple little proprietary tool.

  

 Doing this allowed me, for example, to fully install all my fuel pumps and  plumbing, strobe power supply and wiring with ease…I even sprayed my Zolatone  finish w/ the canoe upside down and was able to hit the wells in the baggage bay  without contortions…(of course, I had to go back and hit the joint between top  and canoe later but that was a snap and the color blended perfectly).

  

 Obviously, when approaching the various tasks out of sequence, one must  keep in mind that things must be positioned for future maintenance, etc. 

  

 But I recall marveling on a number of occasions how challenging many little  tasks would have been if I had not followed the sequence that I had.

  

 When you finally reach the point of actual bonding, a tip I learned from  Kingsley Hurst was to make up, in advance, some little fiberglass “washers”…I  think I made up some w/ 2 layers of BID and some w/ 4 layers of BID. So at every  cleco, I would use a washer of the required thickness to bring the exterior  surface of the top and canoe flush w/ one another thus saving the weight, time,  and trouble of applying and sanding an excessive amount of filler to eliminate  the appearance of a seam. I noted at each cleco the number and thickness of  washers required. Of course this technique relies on the ability of Redux / flox  to bridge the resulting gap resulting from the thickness of the washers, so use  plenty of material to ensure the seam is fully filled and bonded.

  

 Good luck,

  

 Fred

  

   On Jun 14, 2014, at 4:34 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)>  wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Yesterday    I got permission from the inspector to turn my canoe into and airplane.     But before i stick the top on can I ask the general wisdom for gotchas.

    

   I    have done installed pretty much everything I can,,,I think.  All the tail    assembly, the pitch containment plywood thing and the electrics.  The    coax for the antenna.  Installed the battery the main gear and the flap    actuator system, set the wing incidence...

    

   Anything    else I should have done?

	


  



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