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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:20 am Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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Hi
I have been reading the recent post regarding firewall penetrations.
I was wondering if anyone has used multiple eyeballs for the control cables? If so have you been happy with the results. Any pix?
I am not really keen on using bushing and would prefer something that is a bit more fire resistant - the firewall is called that for a reason is it not?
Has anyone used a Safeair pass through for all three control cable? This stuffed with fire resistant putty would seem like a a decent idea?
Comments?
Cheers
Les
#40-643
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dhmoose
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 29
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: Firewall Penetrations |
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Hi Les,
Yes, I did 4 stainless steel eyeball firewall penetrations and am very happy with the installation.
Advantages:
They increase the safety of the firewall
They allow flexible directions for the cables to travel
They can be removed from the engine side of the firewall only! No need to get to the cabin side
They provide for a tidy installation
Disadvantages:
Increased expense
It took a little finesse to install them since you need more space from hole center to hole center then what Vans specifies. I think I put two side-by-side, one below that...and one off to the side (for the FAB)
They require custom control cable lengths since the length changes depending on the installation
I believe I ordered everything from Spruce. The eyeballs are found here:
https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/eyeballfw1.php?clickkey=6551
I think you have to call them for the custom cables.
I hope this helps.
David
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David Halmos
RV-10
Flying!
Portland, OR |
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bwestfall
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:50 pm Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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Les,
I think the safeair pass-thru's would NOT work well for control cables. It
might be a bit tight to get all 3 cables through even the largest pass
through. If you did I think it would push the bend radius out quite a bit
from the firewall thus making them harder to route. I think Dave Saylor had
an issue with a cable that got harder and harder to actuate and required
replacment so it's not unheard of to have to replace a cable from time to
time. I wonder how difficult it would be to pull a single cable out?
I did much the same as David. In fact I borrowed his punch set and had a
few facetime calls w/him during the installation of mine so that I could
share the cussing and bleeding with somebody else.
On a somewhat related issue I see something on the SafeAir website that I'm
not sure if it would be a problem or not. They use nylock nuts on the pan
head screws to secure the pass-thru. Scroll to the pics about half way down
http://www.safeair1.com/averytools/firewallpassthrough.php. I would think
the heat of the firewall would require a locknut that is more appropriate
for the engine compartment.
My non-flying 2 cents.
-Ben
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ron(at)touchtronics.com
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:14 am Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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Hi Les,
I'm not sure what the maximum engine "compartment" temperature may be, but
the nylock nuts should be usable in this location.
I could not determine exactly which nylon the nut manufacture use, could be
Nylon 6 or Nylon 66.
Nylon 6 has a heat deflection temp of 340F and Nylon 66 has on at 450F
Melt temp for 6 is 420F and 66 is 500F.
It the engine compartment get in the 350F range you will have other
component begin to fail.
Regards, Ron
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:40 am Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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Ron
I wouldn't use anything but steel locknuts FWF. As the safe air nuts are on the aft side of the firewall, I suspect they would be okay.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
[quote] On Jun 17, 2014, at 11:13 AM, "Ron Mathia" <ron(at)touchtronics.com> wrote:
Hi Les,
I'm not sure what the maximum engine "compartment" temperature may be, but
the nylock nuts should be usable in this location.
I could not determine exactly which nylon the nut manufacture use, could be
Nylon 6 or Nylon 66.
Nylon 6 has a heat deflection temp of 340F and Nylon 66 has on at 450F
Melt temp for 6 is 420F and 66 is 500F.
It the engine compartment get in the 350F range you will have other
component begin to fail.
Regards, Ron
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:43 am Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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Especially when you consider that even if the nylock melted, it is ONLY
to prevent the nut from vibrating loose. Under short term engine fire
conditions the nut is unlikely to back off for the few minutes you need
to get the plane on the ground.
I only worry about all metal lock nuts for items in direct contact with
heat over 200 degrees...exhaust components, etc.
The all metal locknuts Van's supplies are the worst possible choice.
They are so small that even a 3/8 socket is too big, they have almost no
surface contact at all. AN 363s are much nicer.
0On 6/17/2014 8:38 AM, Les Kearney wrote:
[quote]
Ron
I wouldn't use anything but steel locknuts FWF. As the safe air nuts are on the aft side of the firewall, I suspect they would be okay.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 17, 2014, at 11:13 AM, "Ron Mathia" <ron(at)touchtronics.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Les,
>
> I'm not sure what the maximum engine "compartment" temperature may be, but
> the nylock nuts should be usable in this location.
> I could not determine exactly which nylon the nut manufacture use, could be
> Nylon 6 or Nylon 66.
> Nylon 6 has a heat deflection temp of 340F and Nylon 66 has on at 450F
> Melt temp for 6 is 420F and 66 is 500F.
> It the engine compartment get in the 350F range you will have other
> component begin to fail.
>
> Regards, Ron
>
> --
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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bwestfall
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:47 pm Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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Kelly and Ron thanks for the education it is much appreciated. Now I have
one less thing to continually second guess myself on about my build!
-Ben
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rv10pro(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: Firewall Penetrations |
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There was a lot of valuable information on the subject of Fire some years ago. Most builder give little consideration to Fire Annunciation, Fire Suppression, Response Time to Loss of Aircraft and the temperatures likely to be encountered with the various fires - Fuel, Oil, Electrical and Exhaust Leaks. The loss of Shannon Knoeflein in his "Plastic" plane, returning home from OSH and his pilot decisions which led to the Accident Report would make for a valued and timely public discussion. Dave McNeil could add input in his plumbed suppression system to buy critical seconds. Too many builders do not reflect on where, when and what kind of annunciation they are likely to get. Nylon loses its fastening properties far too low of a temperature (IMHO having recycled plastics for a living in a previous life). From the moment the determination is made, the fiberglass is rated in seconds .... maybe a few minutes before failure. Anyone want to reflect on the fuel line (inside the cockpit) issue a few years ago.
Temperature - Oxygen - a Combustable fuel source. The drill is pretty simple.
Still remember the first Corvette I saw converted back in 1966.
John Cox - 40600
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Ben Westfall <rv10(at)sinkrate.com (rv10(at)sinkrate.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ben Westfall" <rv10(at)sinkrate.com (rv10(at)sinkrate.com)>
Kelly and Ron thanks for the education it is much appreciated. Now I have
one less thing to continually second guess myself on about my build!
-Ben
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