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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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More FSII gear leg problems today. Several years ago we virtually totaled N582EF for a really bad landing where the welded fitting that joins the landing gear leg to the axle failed. Had the fitting not failed, it would have been bad, but not a virtual total. So we rebuilt it.
Today Ed landed the FSII in a friends hay field due to a fuel problem. It was a hard landing, but nothing remarkable. It should have been maybe a slightly bent gear at worst, pull the gear leg out and straighten it. Yet this fitting failed in exactly the same fashion as happened several years ago with the previous gear leg fitting. Once we get the airplane home - hopefully tomorrow - I plan to take the factory fittings and beef them up as much as I can. I no longer trust them, and will be welding some straps or saddles over and around them.
Just something for the rest of you guys to think about.
PS: Note that the file has been resized to 64 kb, and fits very nicely onto the page. No resizing of the page or scrolling back and forth is necessary. 
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:51 pm Post subject: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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I may be wrong,( the photo was so small  ) but the fitting appeared to be one of the early axles. Those were 60 thousands in thickness. The current models are the 120 thousand thickness.
I had the thin ones on my plane and they too caused me a lot of problems. I have since gone to heat treated 4130 because of the problems with the axles and gear legs. I wouldn't go back.
I realize that Homer felt that it would prevent damage to the cage to have the gear legs fail first, as a limit to the damage. That has not been reflective of my experience. Failing gear legs and sockets have caused heavy damage to the cage due to the legs failing for what would have been no more than a rough landing with the proper gear legs.
for what its worth,
Larry
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)>
More FSII gear leg problems today. Several years ago we virtually totaled N582EF for a really bad landing where the welded fitting that joins the landing gear leg to the axle failed. Had the fitting not failed, it would have been bad, but not a virtual total. So we rebuilt it.
Today Ed landed the FSII in a friends hay field due to a fuel problem. It was a hard landing, but nothing remarkable. It should have been maybe a slightly bent gear at worst, pull the gear leg out and straighten it. Yet the fitting failed in exactly the same fashion as happened several years ago. Once we get the airplane home - hopefully tomorrow - I plan to take the factory fittings and beef them up as much as I can. I no longer trust them, and will be welding some straps or saddles over and around them.
Just something for the rest of you guys to think about.
PS: Note that the file has been resized to 64 kb, and fits very nicely onto the page. No resizing of the page or scrolling back and forth is necessary. [Wink]
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
My soul shall be joyful in the LORD; It shall rejoice in His salvation. Psalm 35:9
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428472#428472
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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OK, did not know that they are now .120. After we get the airplane home, I'll call Travis and get some. Thanks.
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:45 am Post subject: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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Fourteen years ago a single failed gear leg/axle socket put a stop to my second attempt to fly my MKIII to Point Barrow, Alaska. That single gear leg/axle socket cost me a torn up airplane, a lot of grief and money, plus 30 days to hitchhike and fly commercial to Alabama, find a 24 foot enclosed trailer, then drive back to northern British Columbia to retrieve my airplane.
I have been using heat treated 4130 gear legs since 1987, but I was still using a bolt on gear leg/axle socket because it was easier for me to align the main gear. Brother Jim wanted to fabricate the steel gear legs with .120" axle sockets welded to the end of the gear leg, but I resisted and ended up paying dearly for that decision. I have been flying with the same set of steel gear legs with welded axle sockets since I rebuilt the MKIII in 2000 and 2001. Don’t know how many hours or landings I have on those gear legs, but I am still flying with them.
I have torn up Firestar fuselages with aluminum gear legs, i.e., ripped out gear leg sockets. The aluminum gear legs my save fuselages in some cases, but not in all cases.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:51 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Weak gear leg fitting?
I may be wrong,( the photo was so small ) but the fitting appeared to be one of the early axles. Those were 60 thousands in thickness. The current models are the 120 thousand thickness.
I had the thin ones on my plane and they too caused me a lot of problems. I have since gone to heat treated 4130 because of the problems with the axles and gear legs. I wouldn't go back.
I realize that Homer felt that it would prevent damage to the cage to have the gear legs fail first, as a limit to the damage. That has not been reflective of my experience. Failing gear legs and sockets have caused heavy damage to the cage due to the legs failing for what would have been no more than a rough landing with the proper gear legs.
for what its worth,
Larry
On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 8:38 PM, Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)>
More FSII gear leg problems today. Several years ago we virtually totaled N582EF for a really bad landing where the welded fitting that joins the landing gear leg to the axle failed. Had the fitting not failed, it would have been bad, but not a virtual total. So we rebuilt it.
Today Ed landed the FSII in a friends hay field due to a fuel problem. It was a hard landing, but nothing remarkable. It should have been maybe a slightly bent gear at worst, pull the gear leg out and straighten it. Yet the fitting failed in exactly the same fashion as happened several years ago. Once we get the airplane home - hopefully tomorrow - I plan to take the factory fittings and beef them up as much as I can. I no longer trust them, and will be welding some straps or saddles over and around them.
Just something for the rest of you guys to think about.
PS: Note that the file has been resized to 64 kb, and fits very nicely onto the page. No resizing of the page or scrolling back and forth is necessary. [Wink]
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
My soul shall be joyful in the LORD; It shall rejoice in His salvation. Psalm 35:9
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428472#428472
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1030786_medium_507.jpg
===========
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><![endif]>
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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baberdk
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 53
Location: East Moline, Il
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| Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:14 am Post subject: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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You might want to rethink modifying that. Forced landings will cause damage, it's just where you want it to happen.
Sincerely,
Denny Baber baberdk(at)gmail.com (baberdk(at)gmail.com)
309-796-2476
Preconceived notions are the locks on the door to wisdom
[quote][b]
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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| John Hauck wrote: | Fourteen years ago a single failed gear leg/axle socket put a stop to my second attempt to fly my MKIII to Point Barrow, Alaska. That single gear leg/axle socket cost me a torn up airplane, a lot of grief and money, plus 30 days to hitchhike and fly commercial to Alabama, find a 24 foot enclosed trailer, then drive back to northern British Columbia to retrieve my airplane.
I have been using heat treated 4130 gear legs since 1987, but I was still using a bolt on gear leg/axle socket because it was easier for me to align the main gear. Brother Jim wanted to fabricate the steel gear legs with .120" axle sockets welded to the end of the gear leg, but I resisted and ended up paying dearly for that decision. I have been flying with the same set of steel gear legs with welded axle sockets since I rebuilt the MKIII in 2000 and 2001. Don’t know how many hours or landings I have on those gear legs, but I am still flying with them.
I have torn up Firestar fuselages with aluminum gear legs, i.e., ripped out gear leg sockets. The aluminum gear legs my save fuselages in some cases, but not in all cases.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
<snip>
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Talked to Travis and ordered new FSII aluminum gear legs and steel end fittings for the axle, he did not mention steel gear legs for the FSII. Are there any steel FSII gear legs? If so, I would like to know about it.
Should I call Travis back on Monday and change my order?
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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| baberdk wrote: | You might want to rethink modifying that. Forced landings will cause damage, it's just where you want it to happen.
Sincerely,
Denny Baber baberdk(at)gmail.com (baberdk(at)gmail.com)
309-796-2476
Preconceived notions are the locks on the door to wisdom
|
This is what happens when the fitting on the end of the gear leg breaks, the wheel comes off, and the end of the gear leg stobs into the ground. How much worse could it be?
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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6769 Time(s) |
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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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I don't know.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Talked to Travis and ordered new FSII aluminum gear legs and steel end
fittings for the axle, he did not mention steel gear legs for the FSII. Are
there any steel FSII gear legs? If so, I would like to know about it.
Should I call Travis back on Monday and change my order?
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
My soul shall be joyful in the LORD; It shall rejoice in His salvation.
Psalm 35:9
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=428588#428588
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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woody
Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Gulf Coast
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Weak gear leg fitting? |
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I've posted this before but, I took John Hauck's advise and built my own set of 4130 steel legs for my FSII. They cost about the same as aluminum legs but I'll bet they last a lot longer.
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