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Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

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Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hello All.

I have a Europa Mono converted into a Tri Gear,

I have noticed when the nose wheel is off the ground, and you grab hold of the tyre, there is some sideways movement, ie not on the wheel bearings, but the whole assembly, 

I have not had a good look at it yet, and I have no drawing or plans of these components, as it was converted by Europa Aircraft Company in about 2001.

I would guess the actual nose wheel arm has some play in it,

Can anybody give some guide lines on the assembly and where the play might be.

Many Thanks.

Alan

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hi Alan, you can download the manual from the europa website.....FREE. You can then reverse the process to remove and replace the faulty item

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hi.

Can get Europa Home Page. etc etc

Can,t find manuals.

Can you post link.

Regards.

Alan

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Alan,



The europa-aircraft.com web site has all the build manuals available for download under the “Builder Assistance” tab.  You should find the information you need in CBM 29T - Landing Gear Tri-Gear.

Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX  76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)

On Aug 27, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)> wrote:

[quote]--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)>



Hello All.

I have a Europa Mono converted into a Tri Gear,

I have noticed when the nose wheel is off the ground, and you grab hold of the tyre, there is some sideways movement, ie not on the wheel bearings, but the whole assembly, 

I have not had a good look at it yet, and I have no drawing or plans of these components, as it was converted by Europa Aircraft Company in about 2001.

I would guess the actual nose wheel arm has some play in it,

Can anybody give some guide lines on the assembly and where the play might be.

Many Thanks.

Alan[b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

http://www.europa-aircraft.com/assistance/manuals.php



On Aug 27, 2014, at 12:08 PM, Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi.

 Can get Europa Home Page. etc etc

 Can,t find manuals.

 Can you post link.

 Regards.

 Alan

pmorgans

Joined: 02 May 2014
Posts: 11
Location: West Wales

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hi Alan,

           Not sure exactly where your movement originates, here's my experience of play in the nosewheel. I bought a very low hours Trigear last year and had steering problems - on inspection found that wheel friction pullout had been set at 20kg instead of 20lbs - but also that there was considerable sideways (wobble) motion of the wheel within the yoke. Examination showed that the 12mm dia. spindle bolt ( kit supply) fitted snugly into the holes in the yoke; however, the wheel bearing inner journals are 1/2 inch dia. Hence the wobble. Replaced 12mm with 1/2 inch AN standard bolt and reamed out yoke to 1/2 inch - wobble cured. 

Regards

Peter

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hi All.

Many thanks for the web link, I can see the nose wheel assembly,

I have a spring damping system and no bungee straps.



My nose wheel is fairly stiff, I don,t know if its 20 lbs or a bit more, but

I prefer it on the stiff side, although taxing is a little harder on the finger brakes.



I have not examined it yet, but my guess is: the nose wheel leg itself turning,?? movement in the leg where it connects to the main frame.

and nothing to do with the housing or bearings.



Is there some pins or bolts going thru the nose gear leg at top end of the leg?



Hi Bob, I have not been on the forum for some time you may have noticed,

My little dog Sunny died at Christmas and I tied so hard to fix him but I couldn't, it hit me hard, but I hope to be joining in the forum again.

Alan

kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Alan,Why not get someone to push down on the tail or tie to a tiedown at the arfield. Then you can check if the leg is loose. There are two AN4 bolts holding it in place. If they are loose, just drill another hole.

Karl

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

 From: alancarteresq(at)onetel.net

 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:41:34 -0700

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 Hi All.

 Many thanks for the web link, I can see the nose wheel assembly,

 I have a spring damping system and no bungee straps.

 My nose wheel is fairly stiff, I don,t know if its 20 lbs or a bit more, but

 I prefer it on the stiff side, although taxing is a little harder on the finger brakes.

 I have not examined it yet, but my guess is: the nose wheel leg itself turning,?? movement in the leg where it connects to the main frame.

 and nothing to do with the housing or bearings.

 Is there some pins or bolts going thru the nose gear leg at top end of the leg?

 Hi Bob, I have not been on the forum for some time you may have noticed,

 My little dog Sunny died at Christmas and I tied so hard to fix him but I couldn't, it hit me hard, but I hope to be joining it the forum again.

 Alan

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429499#429499

&gt========================

 	  Quote: 	

  [quote][b]

phillik747

Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 73
Location: Birminham, AL USA

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

You can use devcon 10110 steel putty to take up any slop.Â  I use the for bedding my rifles. This will full the voids.Â  Use car was as a release agent just key up the area you want the devcon to stick to. After mixingÂ  and applying, wait 1 hour and clean up the excess with a plastic knife.  

Kyle  [quote][b]

_________________
Kyle
Europa Tri-gear (under construction)

kjburns(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:31 am Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Alan,

http://www.europa-aircraft.co.uk/upload/CBM%20-%2029T%20-%20LANDING%20GEAR%20TRIGEAR%20January%202013_1.pdf

is the link to the correct chapter in the manual, page 13 has some photos, page 14 diagrams.

If the full Nose leg assembly is moving side to side as you describe from the top pivot point  (1 inspect for any cracks or tube failures and if none seen ) the pivot fixing method is by two bronze  half shells either side, clamped around the mount frame lower front tube, there needs to be slight clearance either side ,allowing for build tolerance's so it is not metal bound, feels approx 1/2 mm max on my  installation.

The 4 bolts (2 each side) need checked that they are not loose, (they are lock wired as a pair to each other bolt for safety).

By feel you should be able to tell if you have any rocking on these plain bearings , (as against reasonable side to side clearances)  .

You will need cowls of to take a good look, torch mirrors, get your hands in and feel, but don't rely on just jacks, use  an engine hoist and or wing stands for safety while under.

Also look for any elongated skinny sections of bungy elastic on the nose leg suspension , I have found failures on aircraft I maintain where the top firewall rubs at the top nose leg frame , that is very difficult to spot (aircraft time was approx 425 hrs/ 800 landings)( I prefer the nose spring conversion ) .

Good Luck  

Kevin Burns

 

     

   From: Alan Carter <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, 27 August 2014, 18:47

 Subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

  

 

--> Europa-List  message posted by: "Alan Carter" <alancarteresq(at)onetel.net (alancarteresq(at)onetel.net)>



Hello All.

I have a Europa Mono converted into a Tri Gear,

I have noticed when the nose wheel is off the ground, and you grab hold of the tyre, there is some sideways movement, ie not on the wheel bearings, but the whole assembly, 

I have not had a good look at it yet, and I have no drawing or plans of these components, as it was converted by Europa Aircraft Company in about 2001.

I would guess the actual nose wheel arm has some play in it,

Can anybody give some guide lines on the assembly and where the play might be.

Many Thanks.

Alan





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=429473#429========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Eurp;  -->  [quote][b]

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Many thanks All.

My nose wheel assembly has no bungee straps but modified by springs.

It also has the speed kit fit to it, so you can not see the actual metal leg.

I find the drawings on this part not very helpful, but all this seems the same problem like the Torque tube, elongated holes,

I fitted Pat Tunnys clamps a year ago, now I have an absolutely no play in the tail plane.

Nuts Bolts and holes, Crazy, why not a welded solid leg bets me.

However back to the Nuts and bolts,

On further examination today, I pulled the wheel sideways towards me,

placed a block of wood on the ground against the tyre and pushed the wheel away from me, the movement was about 1".

I noticed at the top of the leg a little bolts and with my finger nails felt movement, half way down the leg, there is another bolt horizontally through the leg, again I could see movement,

Could not feel any movement in the axial housing or wheel bearings,

there could be a little movement in other parts at the top of the assemble,? 

So in all the components that make up the nose gear in total about 1" side to side movement where the tyre meets the ground.

Once you have movement it only get bigger and quicker.

So far I can see these two bolts one at the very top and the other half way down the leg, could fit slightly thicker bolts, any special care or type of bolt

to use?

Anybody else checked for movement here.

Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hello ALL 

I went up to the LAA Rally at Sywell on Saturday. 

A couple of Europa owners explained the nose gear in detail.

I have down loaded the manual on nose gear, but I can not find the adhesive use on the leg where it goes into the top housing and also through the half bearing mounting frame hole. ???

I was advised to make sure I use the correct gap fill adhesive.

Alan

brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:37 am Post subject: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Alan,



As the nose leg is supplied by the factory already assembled it would best

to ask them what they used.



Regards



Brian Davies



--

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hi Brian.

"As the nose leg is supplied by the factory already assembled it would best 

to ask them what they used."



Yes, I better do that, but why has a factory made and assembled . component  have movement. ???

Alan

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:47 am Post subject: Re: Sideways movement in Tri Gear nose wheel arm.

Hi All.

Phoned Europa, its Loctite  638 used.

However so far I have tightened the two bolts on the leg strut and the movement is now down to about 1/4" where the tyre meets the ground.

Will take spats off etc, and have a look, as now the 1/4"play could be on a small amount in the bearings or  horizontal and vertical Axials 

Will have to order some 638.

Alan

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