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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation Denied! |
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Well guys...the throttle-up technique worked 2 for 2 last night. But I also noticed that I was (probably) shutting down w/ my cylinder temp running a little on the hot side. So...more Yak lessons added to an already thick course folder.
NEW TOPIC: May I take a poll regarding approaches? I believe the 52 is a pooch to fly. But my landings are truly erratic. I know most pilots would never admit these quirks (Above ALL else - LOOK SMOOTH) but I range from greasing it in, to 2.5G drops pretty routinely. 'Went up Tuesday and walked away going "Wow. I think I've got this." 'Went up last night and went "Wow. No I don't." In my limited experience, the Yak has spanked me hard enough to humble me completely on numerous occasions. Now, I realize landings are a very personal aspect of flying. Some go full-stall while others maintain a little power and fly down to the runway. Then it seems - no matter what your technique or experience - there are just "those" days. Watching AirVenture arrivals leaps to mind. I'm sure some very capable pilots leave more rubber on 27 than they would've ever predicted. But I cannot and WILL not chime in w/ the runway-side "quarterbacks" critiquing all, while their bacon is planted squarely in a lawn chair. It's not my style to pump up my ego by delighting in the deflation of others'. That said...I want to learn. And since I believe in wisdom and safety over pride - I ask. 
I've been tutored by some of the best, but their methods were often conflicting. The following is an "average" account of what I do for an approach - albeit based on limited experience and still a fairly steep learning curve:
I fly a typical retractable pattern. On downwind I have been going to 80% power, prop fine, carb heat on at the top of downwind, gear down abeam. By the time I'm ready to turn base I'm at about 85 knots. On base I have been bringing power back to 70% and maintaining 80 - 85 knots w/ my descent. As soon as I roll wings level on final - probably 1/4 mile from the numbers, I dump flaps. As I push the nose down this has me at about 75 - 80 knots, reduce power to 60% and as I flair airspeed drops to about 70 and bleeds off. Anything slower - to me - feels very mushy.
Now...if I have "ballast" in back, I've found that I can plant it at just about any airspeed. But if I'm solo, it needs to be as slow and gentle as possible or I have bounced back up - and more than once - gotten into some majorly-ugly oscillations that left me in a go-around situation w/ my vitals uncomfortably elevated.
Please talk to me. Guide me, experienced Yakkers...and as always - THANK YOU!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
[quote][b]
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hess737(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:41 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation Denied! |
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Rico,
I've always used 90 KIAS on base and not less than 80 KIAS over the threshold. See if the few extra knots gives a more consistent flare and touchdown.
Richard HessPresident
International Jets, Inc.
Gadsden, AL
O 256-442-8099
C 404-964-4885
www.InternationalJets.com
On Sep 12, 2014, at 12:21 PM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote] Well guys...the throttle-up technique worked 2 for 2 last night. But I also noticed that I was (probably) shutting down w/ my cylinder temp running a little on the hot side. So...more Yak lessons added to an already thick course folder.
NEW TOPIC: May I take a poll regarding approaches? I believe the 52 is a pooch to fly. But my landings are truly erratic. I know most pilots would never admit these quirks (Above ALL else - LOOK SMOOTH) but I range from greasing it in, to 2.5G drops pretty routinely. 'Went up Tuesday and walked away going "Wow. I think I've got this." 'Went up last night and went "Wow. No I don't." In my limited experience, the Yak has spanked me hard enough to humble me completely on numerous occasions. Now, I realize landings are a very personal aspect of flying. Some go full-stall while others maintain a little power and fly down to the runway. Then it seems - no matter what your technique or experience - there are just "those" days. Watching AirVenture arrivals leaps to mind. I'm sure some very capable pilots leave more rubber on 27 than they would've ever predicted. But I cannot and WILL not chime in w/ the runway-side "quarterbacks" critiquing all, while their bacon is planted squarely in a lawn chair. It's not my style to pump up my ego by delighting in the deflation of others'. That said...I want to learn. And since I believe in wisdom and safety over pride - I ask.
I've been tutored by some of the best, but their methods were often conflicting. The following is an "average" account of what I do for an approach - albeit based on limited experience and still a fairly steep learning curve:
I fly a typical retractable pattern. On downwind I have been going to 80% power, prop fine, carb heat on at the top of downwind, gear down abeam. By the time I'm ready to turn base I'm at about 85 knots. On base I have been bringing power back to 70% and maintaining 80 - 85 knots w/ my descent. As soon as I roll wings level on final - probably 1/4 mile from the numbers, I dump flaps. As I push the nose down this has me at about 75 - 80 knots, reduce power to 60% and as I flair airspeed drops to about 70 and bleeds off. Anything slower - to me - feels very mushy.
Now...if I have "ballast" in back, I've found that I can plant it at just about any airspeed. But if I'm solo, it needs to be as slow and gentle as possible or I have bounced back up - and more than once - gotten into some majorly-ugly oscillations that left me in a go-around situation w/ my vitals uncomfortably elevated.
Please talk to me. Guide me, experienced Yakkers...and as always - THANK YOU!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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dabear
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:14 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation Denied! |
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I would leave the prop at 2400/82% and not go full forward on the prop to land.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 11:22 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Reverse Rotation Denied!
Well guys...the throttle-up technique worked 2 for 2 last night. But I also noticed that I was (probably) shutting down w/ my cylinder temp running a little on the hot side. So...more Yak lessons added to an already thick course folder.
NEW TOPIC: May I take a poll regarding approaches? I believe the 52 is a pooch to fly. But my landings are truly erratic. I know most pilots would never admit these quirks (Above ALL else - LOOK SMOOTH) but I range from greasing it in, to 2.5G drops pretty routinely. 'Went up Tuesday and walked away going "Wow. I think I've got this." 'Went up last night and went "Wow. No I don't." In my limited experience, the Yak has spanked me hard enough to humble me completely on numerous occasions. Now, I realize landings are a very personal aspect of flying. Some go full-stall while others maintain a little power and fly down to the runway. Then it seems - no matter what your technique or experience - there are just "those" days. Watching AirVenture arrivals leaps to mind. I'm sure some very capable pilots leave more rubber on 27 than they would've ever predicted. But I cannot and WILL not chime in w/ the runway-side "quarterbacks" critiquing all, while their bacon is planted squarely in a lawn chair. It's not my style to pump up my ego by delighting in the deflation of others'. That said...I want to learn. And since I believe in wisdom and safety over pride - I ask.
I've been tutored by some of the best, but their methods were often conflicting. The following is an "average" account of what I do for an approach - albeit based on limited experience and still a fairly steep learning curve:
I fly a typical retractable pattern. On downwind I have been going to 80% power, prop fine, carb heat on at the top of downwind, gear down abeam. By the time I'm ready to turn base I'm at about 85 knots. On base I have been bringing power back to 70% and maintaining 80 - 85 knots w/ my descent. As soon as I roll wings level on final - probably 1/4 mile from the numbers, I dump flaps. As I push the nose down this has me at about 75 - 80 knots, reduce power to 60% and as I flair airspeed drops to about 70 and bleeds off. Anything slower - to me - feels very mushy.
Now...if I have "ballast" in back, I've found that I can plant it at just about any airspeed. But if I'm solo, it needs to be as slow and gentle as possible or I have bounced back up - and more than once - gotten into some majorly-ugly oscillations that left me in a go-around situation w/ my vitals uncomfortably elevated.
Please talk to me. Guide me, experienced Yakkers...and as always - THANK YOU!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation Denied! |
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I’ll be the first to bite at this apple. As an old LSO, the key to consistent landings is a stabilized, trimmed up approach. I would suggest lowering your flaps and trimming the aircraft for your approach speed before you begin your turn off the perch. It may require a LITTLE tighter pattern or a LITTLE shorter final because of the additional drag of the flaps. But I strongly recommend a pattern that doesn’t exceed 25-27 degrees angle of bank and a wings level final not less than eight to ten seconds. The turn of less than 30 AOB allows for a little margin for overshooting crosswinds without wrapping it up too tight and the 8-10 second wings level final gives you a little cushion to handle an overshoot and still safely work back to centerline and be stabilized before you begin your flare. Turns off the perch requiring up to 45 degrees AOB require excess airspeed to handle the slight load factor and you end up having to fix a higher than desired airspeed on final. Again not stabilized and may result in issues eating up you interval in a formation recovery or the urge to get it on the deck sooner than desired. I know there are those out there that want to be very tight in the pattern due to the POSSIBLITY of an engine failure. At my home field at 3,320’ with a 3,000’ runway that I normally land on, unless the engine quits abeam the intended point of landing I’m not going to be in a position to land on the remaining runway. It’s a different story for those of you with much longer runways. I’m not advocating a pattern that would look comfortable to a 747 captain. But, I know of two RPA aircraft that have gone down in the pattern due to wrapped up turns to final, but am not aware of any who have perished from losing an engine in the pattern, so I’m a strong advocate of a NOTSO tight pattern particularly in multi ship formations with overshooting crosswinds where everyone rolls out downwind with their interval on their nose and by the time Dash 4 is at the perch, he’s not abeam the intended point of landing, he’s NEARLY OVER the intended point landing. We have vastly differing levels of experience in our RPA community and the desire to hack it by some FNG’s has likely made for some exciting landings and probably a few lost comrades. Every time I go the southern route to our cabin in Colorado I pass the airport at Walsenburg, CO and am saddened by the memory of the father and son that perished there several years ago in their new Nanchang on the way to OSH flying what was, for the density altitude and/or winds that day, too tight of a pattern. So, maybe when we start losing more aircraft in the pattern from engine failures than from wrapped up approach turn stalls I’ll be more inclined to advocate the very tight pattern, until then I’ll stand by a 25-27 degree AOB, trimmed up, stabilized turn that yields consistent and safe results.
Sorry to diverge beyond landings themselves, but the pattern is where it all begins.
As not just an old LSO, but also a Naval Aviator, I can take it just as well as I can dish it out. Hit me with your best shot!
Mark Davis
N44YK
Former Garuda and Guntrain Paddles
P.S. Before I completed this I saw Richard Hess’s comments on airspeeds. They’re the same I use. Bleeding off excess airspeed on short final is easy with the paddle blade prop.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 9:22 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Reverse Rotation Denied!
Well guys...the throttle-up technique worked 2 for 2 last night. But I also noticed that I was (probably) shutting down w/ my cylinder temp running a little on the hot side. So...more Yak lessons added to an already thick course folder.
NEW TOPIC: May I take a poll regarding approaches? I believe the 52 is a pooch to fly. But my landings are truly erratic. I know most pilots would never admit these quirks (Above ALL else - LOOK SMOOTH) but I range from greasing it in, to 2.5G drops pretty routinely. 'Went up Tuesday and walked away going "Wow. I think I've got this." 'Went up last night and went "Wow. No I don't." In my limited experience, the Yak has spanked me hard enough to humble me completely on numerous occasions. Now, I realize landings are a very personal aspect of flying. Some go full-stall while others maintain a little power and fly down to the runway. Then it seems - no matter what your technique or experience - there are just "those" days. Watching AirVenture arrivals leaps to mind. I'm sure some very capable pilots leave more rubber on 27 than they would've ever predicted. But I cannot and WILL not chime in w/ the runway-side "quarterbacks" critiquing all, while their bacon is planted squarely in a lawn chair. It's not my style to pump up my ego by delighting in the deflation of others'. That said...I want to learn. And since I believe in wisdom and safety over pride - I ask.
I've been tutored by some of the best, but their methods were often conflicting. The following is an "average" account of what I do for an approach - albeit based on limited experience and still a fairly steep learning curve:
I fly a typical retractable pattern. On downwind I have been going to 80% power, prop fine, carb heat on at the top of downwind, gear down abeam. By the time I'm ready to turn base I'm at about 85 knots. On base I have been bringing power back to 70% and maintaining 80 - 85 knots w/ my descent. As soon as I roll wings level on final - probably 1/4 mile from the numbers, I dump flaps. As I push the nose down this has me at about 75 - 80 knots, reduce power to 60% and as I flair airspeed drops to about 70 and bleeds off. Anything slower - to me - feels very mushy.
Now...if I have "ballast" in back, I've found that I can plant it at just about any airspeed. But if I'm solo, it needs to be as slow and gentle as possible or I have bounced back up - and more than once - gotten into some majorly-ugly oscillations that left me in a go-around situation w/ my vitals uncomfortably elevated.
Please talk to me. Guide me, experienced Yakkers...and as always - THANK YOU!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation Denied! |
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Mark,
Hit you w/ my best shot? On the contrary: I'd salute you if my civilian salute carried any weight.
1st of all - and most importantly - THANK YOU for your service to your country. What I wouldn't give to hear some of the amazing stories you could easily spill for hours. Also, it's very humbling to me as I try to find my way amongst those whom have such a rich aviation background. You guys are the reason I READ much more than I could ever contribute - and why I LEARN much more than I may ever be able to teach.
2nd - THANK YOU for this wealth of info. I need to read this a dozen more times to truly digest it, but suffice to say - when I was still just a "lurker" in search of a Yak, I had the perils of "coffin corner" burnt into my brain. I do not lie when I say it resonates within me every time I turn base-to-final now. Love the idea of a "stabilized, trimmed approach." Makes much sense that if you want a good landing, that process should not be complicated by wrestling w/ the airplane to achieve runway center, longitudinal correction, etc. I think that point hit home the most - as I know I am guilty of complacency - often trying to find "the pocket" during flair rather than approach.
To me, THIS is both the beauty and purpose of "The List." I can't speak for everyone, but these convo's really are valuable to me. Not only do they provide great discussion based around a common passion and "a-HA" moments, they also may confirm GOOD practices, as well as inspire ME to 1) fly, and 2) fly BETTER. Sadly, there are times these pages turn into a (politically correct) "Urinating Contest." There are valuable lessons to be learned here - ones that may be missed if one is too intimidated to ask. So from the official "weak link" in your midst, I thank you guys for your patience and wisdom. I have no business being in the Yak business. Therefore you can bet I'm going to go for broke as I attempt to earn my keep.
Now I can't wait to fly...but the 400' ceiling is laughing at me...
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
From: markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Reverse Rotation Denied!
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:21:32 -0600
I’ll be the first to bite at this apple. As an old LSO, the key to consistent landings is a stabilized, trimmed up approach. I would suggest lowering your flaps and trimming the aircraft for your approach speed before you begin your turn off the perch. It may require a LITTLE tighter pattern or a LITTLE shorter final because of the additional drag of the flaps. But I strongly recommend a pattern that doesn’t exceed 25-27 degrees angle of bank and a wings level final not less than eight to ten seconds. The turn of less than 30 AOB allows for a little margin for overshooting crosswinds without wrapping it up too tight and the 8-10 second wings level final gives you a little cushion to handle an overshoot and still safely work back to centerline and be stabilized before you begin your flare. Turns off the perch requiring up to 45 degrees AOB require excess airspeed to handle the slight load factor and you end up having to fix a higher than desired airspeed on final. Again not stabilized and may result in issues eating up you interval in a formation recovery or the urge to get it on the deck sooner than desired. I know there are those out there that want to be very tight in the pattern due to the POSSIBLITY of an engine failure. At my home field at 3,320’ with a 3,000’ runway that I normally land on, unless the engine quits abeam the intended point of landing I’m not going to be in a position to land on the remaining runway. It’s a different story for those of you with much longer runways. I’m not advocating a pattern that would look comfortable to a 747 captain. But, I know of two RPA aircraft that have gone down in the pattern due to wrapped up turns to final, but am not aware of any who have perished from losing an engine in the pattern, so I’m a strong advocate of a NOTSO tight pattern particularly in multi ship formations with overshooting crosswinds where everyone rolls out downwind with their interval on their nose and by the time Dash 4 is at the perch, he’s not abeam the intended point of landing, he’s NEARLY OVER the intended point landing. We have vastly differing levels of experience in our RPA community and the desire to hack it by some FNG’s has likely made for some exciting landings and probably a few lost comrades. Every time I go the southern route to our cabin in Colorado I pass the airport at Walsenburg, CO and am saddened by the memory of the father and son that perished there several years ago in their new Nanchang on the way to OSH flying what was, for the density altitude and/or winds that day, too tight of a pattern. So, maybe when we start losing more aircraft in the pattern from engine failures than from wrapped up approach turn stalls I’ll be more inclined to advocate the very tight pattern, until then I’ll stand by a 25-27 degree AOB, trimmed up, stabilized turn that yields consistent and safe results.
Sorry to diverge beyond landings themselves, but the pattern is where it all begins.
As not just an old LSO, but also a Naval Aviator, I can take it just as well as I can dish it out. Hit me with your best shot!
Mark Davis
N44YK
Former Garuda and Guntrain Paddles
P.S. Before I completed this I saw Richard Hess’s comments on airspeeds. They’re the same I use. Bleeding off excess airspeed on short final is easy with the paddle blade prop.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 9:22 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Reverse Rotation Denied!
Well guys...the throttle-up technique worked 2 for 2 last night. But I also noticed that I was (probably) shutting down w/ my cylinder temp running a little on the hot side. So...more Yak lessons added to an already thick course folder.
NEW TOPIC: May I take a poll regarding approaches? I believe the 52 is a pooch to fly. But my landings are truly erratic. I know most pilots would never admit these quirks (Above ALL else - LOOK SMOOTH) but I range from greasing it in, to 2.5G drops pretty routinely. 'Went up Tuesday and walked away going "Wow. I think I've got this." 'Went up last night and went "Wow. No I don't." In my limited experience, the Yak has spanked me hard enough to humble me completely on numerous occasions. Now, I realize landings are a very personal aspect of flying. Some go full-stall while others maintain a little power and fly down to the runway. Then it seems - no matter what your technique or experience - there are just "those" days. Watching AirVenture arrivals leaps to mind. I'm sure some very capable pilots leave more rubber on 27 than they would've ever predicted. But I cannot and WILL not chime in w/ the runway-side "quarterbacks" critiquing all, while their bacon is planted squarely in a lawn chair. It's not my style to pump up my ego by delighting in the deflation of others'. That said...I want to learn. And since I believe in wisdom and safety over pride - I ask.
I've been tutored by some of the best, but their methods were often conflicting. The following is an "average" account of what I do for an approach - albeit based on limited experience and still a fairly steep learning curve:
I fly a typical retractable pattern. On downwind I have been going to 80% power, prop fine, carb heat on at the top of downwind, gear down abeam. By the time I'm ready to turn base I'm at about 85 knots. On base I have been bringing power back to 70% and maintaining 80 - 85 knots w/ my descent. As soon as I roll wings level on final - probably 1/4 mile from the numbers, I dump flaps. As I push the nose down this has me at about 75 - 80 knots, reduce power to 60% and as I flair airspeed drops to about 70 and bleeds off. Anything slower - to me - feels very mushy.
Now...if I have "ballast" in back, I've found that I can plant it at just about any airspeed. But if I'm solo, it needs to be as slow and gentle as possible or I have bounced back up - and more than once - gotten into some majorly-ugly oscillations that left me in a go-around situation w/ my vitals uncomfortably elevated.
Please talk to me. Guide me, experienced Yakkers...and as always - THANK YOU!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
8
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:47 pm Post subject: Reverse Rotation Denied! |
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Paddles dead nuts on.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 12, 2014, at 12:21 PM, Mark Davis <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org (markdavis(at)wbsnet.org)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
I’ll be the first to bite at this apple. As an old LSO, the key to consistent landings is a stabilized, trimmed up approach. I would suggest lowering your flaps and trimming the aircraft for your approach speed before you begin your turn off the perch. It may require a LITTLE tighter pattern or a LITTLE shorter final because of the additional drag of the flaps. But I strongly recommend a pattern that doesn’t exceed 25-27 degrees angle of bank and a wings level final not less than eight to ten seconds. The turn of less than 30 AOB allows for a little margin for overshooting crosswinds without wrapping it up too tight and the 8-10 second wings level final gives you a little cushion to handle an overshoot and still safely work back to centerline and be stabilized before you begin your flare. Turns off the perch requiring up to 45 degrees AOB require excess airspeed to handle the slight load factor and you end up having to fix a higher than desired airspeed on final. Again not stabilized and may result in issues eating up you interval in a formation recovery or the urge to get it on the deck sooner than desired. I know there are those out there that want to be very tight in the pattern due to the POSSIBLITY of an engine failure. At my home field at 3,320’ with a 3,000’ runway that I normally land on, unless the engine quits abeam the intended point of landing I’m not going to be in a position to land on the remaining runway. It’s a different story for those of you with much longer runways. I’m not advocating a pattern that would look comfortable to a 747 captain. But, I know of two RPA aircraft that have gone down in the pattern due to wrapped up turns to final, but am not aware of any who have perished from losing an engine in the pattern, so I’m a strong advocate of a NOTSO tight pattern particularly in multi ship formations with overshooting crosswinds where everyone rolls out downwind with their interval on their nose and by the time Dash 4 is at the perch, he’s not abeam the intended point of landing, he’s NEARLY OVER the intended point landing. We have vastly differing levels of experience in our RPA community and the desire to hack it by some FNG’s has likely made for some exciting landings and probably a few lost comrades. Every time I go the southern route to our cabin in Colorado I pass the airport at Walsenburg, CO and am saddened by the memory of the father and son that perished there several years ago in their new Nanchang on the way to OSH flying what was, for the density altitude and/or winds that day, too tight of a pattern. So, maybe when we start losing more aircraft in the pattern from engine failures than from wrapped up approach turn stalls I’ll be more inclined to advocate the very tight pattern, until then I’ll stand by a 25-27 degree AOB, trimmed up, stabilized turn that yields consistent and safe results.
Sorry to diverge beyond landings themselves, but the pattern is where it all begins.
As not just an old LSO, but also a Naval Aviator, I can take it just as well as I can dish it out. Hit me with your best shot!
Mark Davis
N44YK
Former Garuda and Guntrain Paddles
P.S. Before I completed this I saw Richard Hess’s comments on airspeeds. They’re the same I use. Bleeding off excess airspeed on short final is easy with the paddle blade prop.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Rico Jaeger
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 9:22 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Reverse Rotation Denied!
Well guys...the throttle-up technique worked 2 for 2 last night. But I also noticed that I was (probably) shutting down w/ my cylinder temp running a little on the hot side. So...more Yak lessons added to an already thick course folder.
NEW TOPIC: May I take a poll regarding approaches? I believe the 52 is a pooch to fly. But my landings are truly erratic. I know most pilots would never admit these quirks (Above ALL else - LOOK SMOOTH) but I range from greasing it in, to 2.5G drops pretty routinely. 'Went up Tuesday and walked away going "Wow. I think I've got this." 'Went up last night and went "Wow. No I don't." In my limited experience, the Yak has spanked me hard enough to humble me completely on numerous occasions. Now, I realize landings are a very personal aspect of flying. Some go full-stall while others maintain a little power and fly down to the runway. Then it seems - no matter what your technique or experience - there are just "those" days. Watching AirVenture arrivals leaps to mind. I'm sure some very capable pilots leave more rubber on 27 than they would've ever predicted. But I cannot and WILL not chime in w/ the runway-side "quarterbacks" critiquing all, while their bacon is planted squarely in a lawn chair. It's not my style to pump up my ego by delighting in the deflation of others'. That said...I want to learn. And since I believe in wisdom and safety over pride - I ask.
I've been tutored by some of the best, but their methods were often conflicting. The following is an "average" account of what I do for an approach - albeit based on limited experience and still a fairly steep learning curve:
I fly a typical retractable pattern. On downwind I have been going to 80% power, prop fine, carb heat on at the top of downwind, gear down abeam. By the time I'm ready to turn base I'm at about 85 knots. On base I have been bringing power back to 70% and maintaining 80 - 85 knots w/ my descent. As soon as I roll wings level on final - probably 1/4 mile from the numbers, I dump flaps. As I push the nose down this has me at about 75 - 80 knots, reduce power to 60% and as I flair airspeed drops to about 70 and bleeds off. Anything slower - to me - feels very mushy.
Now...if I have "ballast" in back, I've found that I can plant it at just about any airspeed. But if I'm solo, it needs to be as slow and gentle as possible or I have bounced back up - and more than once - gotten into some majorly-ugly oscillations that left me in a go-around situation w/ my vitals uncomfortably elevated.
Please talk to me. Guide me, experienced Yakkers...and as always - THANK YOU!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
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