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Reverse Rotation On Shutdown
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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:15 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

Ernie

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:38 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Could be something as simple as a piston rising up during the compression stroke during shutdown but not reaching TDC, and the pressure in the cylinder just pushes back against the piston.



Ernie

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:13 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave. Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 

Wausau, WI. 54401 Â  Â Â 

[url=tel:715.529.7426]715.529.7426[/url] Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  //

1966 Cessna 150FÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ^/---//-X

N8558G Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â //

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  //Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52Â Â Â Â ^/---//-X

N21YK Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â //

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 



 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:56 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Rico, 

What CHT's are you shutting down at after scavaging you engine (at) 70% for 10 sec.? Should be shutting down at 160-170 C. Otherwise can get misfire and dieseling at higher temps. 

Doc 



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



 		 	   		  

   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

_________________
Viperdoc

rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:20 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Great point, Doc. I'm embarrassed to say I don't pay that much attention to shut down temps and just look for needles in the green. The only time my Cylinder Temp creeps into the upper yellow band is when I'm above 95% on initial climb out. But as soon as I back it down to about 85-90% it settles reliably back in the green and stays there. It's typically pretty cool up here in cheeseland w/ a fairly lengthy taxi back to the T, so temps have a good chance to simmer down. I will be more attentive to specific readings next time - hopefully tonight! THANK YOU!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



From: f16viperdoc(at)me.com

Subject: Re: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:54:14 -0500

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com



Rico, 

What CHT's are you shutting down at after scavaging you engine (at) 70% for 10 sec.? Should be shutting down at 160-170 C. Otherwise can get misfire and dieseling at higher temps. 

Doc 



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



 		 	   		  

   	  Quote: 	
		  


D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


	





===========

rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

===========

http://forums.matronics.com

===========

="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:19 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

I'd also be curious what exact plugs are being used... Russian or Automobile and if the latter what heat range.



Also, have you modified the carb in any way?



Mark



p.s.  A sudden reversal in direction of rotation does indeed put a load on sheer couplings.  Compressor, generator, mags, you name it.



--

rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:30 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Doug,



Russian mags.

I lock brakes, verify gills / oil cooler open,  run up to 65% or so during which time I shut off all nonessential electrical (master / ignition / generator and engine instruments still ON) and pull off my headset or helmet so I may hear anything unusual - this is usually about 20 seconds +/- 5 seconds, smoothly pull throttle back to idle for about 10 seconds, pull mags, kill master / ignition / generator. After that - unlock brakes / shut off air / hop out and kill rear mags, open cylinder drain and push in. I think that covers it as I currently sit at my desk... 

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:03:21 -0700

Subject: Re: Yak-List: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

From: dougsappllc(at)gmail.com

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com



What is your shut down procedure?What mags are you using?  Russian or Chinese?

Doug

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

[quote]Rico, 

What CHT's are you shutting down at after scavaging you engine (at) 70% for 10 sec.? Should be shutting down at 160-170 C. Otherwise can get misfire and dieseling at higher temps. 

Doc 



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



 		 	   		  

   	  Quote: 	
		  


D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


	


[b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

This might open an interesting discussion.



The Russian instructions I have call for pulling the engine back to idle (same as you) and right after killing the mags, opening the throttle all the way until the engine stops rotating, and then return to idle.



I have been doing that for years.   Curious if others ever read it.



Mark

--

rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:51 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Mark,

I just had a "lister" reply w/ that MAGS OFF / THROTTLE OPEN tip off-list.  As far as plugs, I have Dennis' conversion and abide steadfastly to his specific instructions.



Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



[quote] From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:37:47 +0000

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 

 This might open an interesting discussion.

 

 The Russian instructions I have call for pulling the engine back to idle (same as you) and right after killing the mags, opening the throttle all the way until the engine stops rotating, and then return to idle.

 

 I have been doing that for years.   Curious if others ever read it.

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:00 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Have tried it both ways. Savage x 10sec, idle,  mags off, full advance or no advance. Seems CHT drove counter rotation for me in this LA heat.



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Sep 11, 2014, at 11:37 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 

 

 

 This might open an interesting discussion.

 

 The Russian instructions I have call for pulling the engine back to idle (same as you) and right after killing the mags, opening the throttle all the way until the engine stops rotating, and then return to idle.

 

 I have been doing that for years.   Curious if others ever read it.

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

_________________
Viperdoc

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:06 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Rico, the only time I have had reverse rotation was long ago when I experimented with using automobile fuel.  With the lower octane fuel, the engine often continued to "run on" and sometimes did a rapid reversal as you have detailed.  One time it did that and sheered the generator coupling, and right after that I said phooey to auto gas!  This was back in the days before they started mixing in alcohol.  



The reason I mentioned plugs is because if heat ranges are changed the plug can retain enough heat to cause a form of ignition.  Glad you did not do that.  



And of course, I have to add that I run MMO in my fuel.  Quite a bit of it in fact.  About half a quart to 30 gallons of fuel, but that fuel is now 100%   BLUE Low Lead AvGas.    



You might just try that simple trick of opening the throttle all the way after the mags are secured.  In fact, more than once I have done both simultaneously.  I.E. Push the throttle up rapidly at the exact same time with the other hand I kill the mag switch.   I have never had a run on, or backwards spin using that method.  Not once.  



Of course, there are so many other variables... but it is worth a shot.  



Mark

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Concur that heat would be a big factor inducing this situation as well.



Mark

--

tigeryak18t

Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:19 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

The book says to shut down at 150.160 is accepted but if it happen that you shut down at 170 you should write it in your logbook



So the normal shutdown temperature is between 150 and 160.

Didier

2014-09-11 15:13 GMT+02:00 Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)>:

[quote]   Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave. Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 

Wausau, WI. 54401 Â  Â Â 

[url=tel:715.529.7426]715.529.7426[/url] Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  //

1966 Cessna 150FÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ^/---//-X

N8558G Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â //

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  //Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52Â Â Â Â ^/---//-X

N21YK Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â //

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 



 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing

rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

This is fantastic, guys! THANK YOU for sharing - I will try the "Throttle Up" trick and report back after a few runs.



I suppose "Gear Up" would prevent unsolicited rotation as well... :")

Your patience and knowledge is greatly appreciated. And I WILL have more questions...!!

BTW - if any of you happen to be passing through WI Saturday, there is a nice little fly in in Oconto (OCQ) where 3 of us Yakkers are headed. Lotsa GA planes and a nice Avenger will be there as well. Friendly folks - although sounds like Fall temps, but great for a flight suit!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



[quote] From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Yak-List: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:05:42 +0000

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 

 Concur that heat would be a big factor inducing this situation as well.

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

jackpot

Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 65
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Rico, check the idle speed. It should be 26% minimum. If slower then the butterfly in the carburetor throat will be closed more. If it is the engine will suck in more fuel with the throttle closed and that can cause a kick back. Worth looking at.  Gary. CJ N22YK



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:28, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   Doug,



Russian mags.

I lock brakes, verify gills / oil cooler open,  run up to 65% or so during which time I shut off all nonessential electrical (master / ignition / generator and engine instruments still ON) and pull off my headset or helmet so I may hear anything unusual - this is usually about 20 seconds +/- 5 seconds, smoothly pull throttle back to idle for about 10 seconds, pull mags, kill master / ignition / generator. After that - unlock brakes / shut off air / hop out and kill rear mags, open cylinder drain and push in. I think that covers it as I currently sit at my desk... 

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:03:21 -0700

Subject: Re: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

From: dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)



What is your shut down procedure?What mags are you using?  Russian or Chinese?

Doug

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Rico, 

What CHT's are you shutting down at after scavaging you engine (at) 70% for 10 sec.? Should be shutting down at 160-170 C. Otherwise can get misfire and dieseling at higher temps. 

Doc 



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?



Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



 		 	   		  

   	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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===================================



	


	


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[b]

rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:32 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Thanks for that, Gary! Again - I'll have to start paying better attention to numbers. Most of the time my "idle" is about 35% - otherwise my generator cuts out and the radio garbles, GPS cycles and cockpit lighting goes dark. But for shutdown, my final pull is always back to the stops. I'd have to say I'm right in there at that 25%'ish range...



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



Subject: Re: Yak-List: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

From: ggg6(at)att.net

Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:22:46 -0700

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com



Rico, check the idle speed. It should be 26% minimum. If slower then the butterfly in the carburetor throat will be closed more. If it is the engine will suck in more fuel with the throttle closed and that can cause a kick back. Worth looking at.  Gary. CJ N22YK



Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2014, at 9:28, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com> wrote:






Doug,

Russian mags.



I lock brakes, verify gills / oil cooler open,  run up to 65% or so during which time I shut off all nonessential electrical (master / ignition / generator and engine instruments still ON) and pull off my headset or helmet so I may hear anything unusual - this is usually about 20 seconds +/- 5 seconds, smoothly pull throttle back to idle for about 10 seconds, pull mags, kill master / ignition / generator. After that - unlock brakes / shut off air / hop out and kill rear mags, open cylinder drain and push in. I think that covers it as I currently sit at my desk... 

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 09:03:21 -0700

Subject: Re: Yak-List: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

From: dougsappllc(at)gmail.com

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com



What is your shut down procedure?What mags are you using?  Russian or Chinese?

Doug

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com> wrote:

Rico, What CHT's are you shutting down at after scavaging you engine (at) 70% for 10 sec.? Should be shutting down at 160-170 C. Otherwise can get misfire and dieseling at higher temps. Doc 



Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 11, 2014, at 8:13 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com> wrote:






Can anyone tell me why - occasionally when I shut down, my prop spins backwards a revolution or 2? Is this a form of dieseling? It doesn't happen consistently - maybe twice in the last 10 runs. I've heard that backwards rotation can also shear the compressor coupling...?

Any wisdom shared would be much appreciated!

Thanks!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



 		 	   		  




D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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===================================

t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

===================================

p://forums.matronics.com

===================================

blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===================================





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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

RICO!  Why in heavens name is that mess happening?    When you bring the engine to idle, there should be a very clean change-over to battery load.   I am assuming you are using a fully stock Russian generator and charging system.



The very first thing you should check is battery voltage under load.   Just turn on everything as you normally would and check battery voltage without the engine running.  If it is down below 12 volts, change your batteries.  This is pretty important by the way.



Your indications are pointing to not enough current being available to trip the reverse current relay properly.  This is typically due to bad batteries.



Mark

--

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:05 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Yeah, it would. Will not it takes full throttle to taxi and will have a lot of vibration depending on how asymmetrical your blades are. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Sep 11, 2014, at 12:22 PM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   This is fantastic, guys! THANK YOU for sharing - I will try the "Throttle Up" trick and report back after a few runs.



I suppose "Gear Up" would prevent unsolicited rotation as well... :")

Your patience and knowledge is greatly appreciated. And I WILL have more questions...!!

BTW - if any of you happen to be passing through WI Saturday, there is a nice little fly in in Oconto (OCQ) where 3 of us Yakkers are headed. Lotsa GA planes and a nice Avenger will be there as well. Friendly folks - although sounds like Fall temps, but great for a flight suit!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



[quote] From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:05:42 +0000

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 

 Concur that heat would be a big factor inducing this situation as well.

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

_________________
Viperdoc

Viperdoc

Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:11 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

Will note... Takes full throttle to taxi.



Sent from my iPad



On Sep 11, 2014, at 1:04 PM, Roger Kemp <f16viperdoc(at)me.com (f16viperdoc(at)me.com)> wrote:

[quote]Yeah, it would. Will not it takes full throttle to taxi and will have a lot of vibration depending on how asymmetrical your blades are. 

Doc



Sent from my iPad



On Sep 11, 2014, at 12:22 PM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]   This is fantastic, guys! THANK YOU for sharing - I will try the "Throttle Up" trick and report back after a few runs.



I suppose "Gear Up" would prevent unsolicited rotation as well... :")

Your patience and knowledge is greatly appreciated. And I WILL have more questions...!!

BTW - if any of you happen to be passing through WI Saturday, there is a nice little fly in in Oconto (OCQ) where 3 of us Yakkers are headed. Lotsa GA planes and a nice Avenger will be there as well. Friendly folks - although sounds like Fall temps, but great for a flight suit!



Rico Jaeger

915 S. 11th Ave.                  

Wausau, WI. 54401     

715.529.7426                    

                                                                  //

1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X

N8558G                                                  //

                                                //               

1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X

N21YK                                  //

                                          



[quote] From: mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

 Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:05:42 +0000

 

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 

 Concur that heat would be a big factor inducing this situation as well.

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

_________________
Viperdoc

hess737(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:19 am Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

I do the same. Works well   

  

     

  

      Richard Hess

     President

     International Jets, Inc.

     Cell 404-964-4885

  

     

  

     

  

    --

jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:27 pm Post subject: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown

So do I, and I even cut the mags before completely idle (at about 43 – 40 %, when I see the oil pressure drop substantially). 

In this way, the prop still has some inertia.

Jan

From:  Richard Hess <hess737(at)aol.com (hess737(at)aol.com)>

Reply-To:  "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

Date:  Thursday 11 September 2014 21:17

To:  "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>

Subject:  Re: Reverse Rotation On Shutdown



I do the same. Works well 



 



Richard Hess

President

International Jets, Inc.

Cell 404-964-4885



 



 



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