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5 rib firestar
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gyrodude

Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Stanfield N.C.

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:02 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

I have a 5 rib older Firestar with a 377 Rotax. Sunday, It lost power so I put it down in an open field that had cotton grown on it last year. No big deal except in my wallet. I've been flying ultralights since the early eighties. Was a BFI. I'm sure this has been asked before. I have a zero time 503 that I can install if the 377 cannot be repaired at a reasonable price. I was told that it was not recommended but that some guys have done the swap. Thanks for any opinions, advice.

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

The original 5-rib Firestar was designed to meet Part 103, but it never did even with a Rotax 377 engine. Many of them added the 447 engine including the one I have. This put it far beyond the ultralight limits and thus became subject to FAA registration. A Rotax 503 would not only add more weight but also more power than the design can handle. I was told this by Dennis Souder at the old Kolb Company. It would not be advisable to do this because the wings and airframe cannot handle that kind of power. I know there are some guys out there that disagree with me, but I think the designer knows more about the original 5-rib wing than they do. On the other hand, a 7-rib wing is stronger with a beefed up airframe and it can handle a 503 engine.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:34 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

Gyrodude ,Ill tell you what Dennis told me twenty years ago if you are going to use the 503 build a KXP ,I did ,but if you cant fix the377 send it to me I am just buying one for my Firefly I might be able to use it for parts. Good luck Chris

  

  

 Chris Davis

KXP 503 492 hrs

Glider Pilot

Disabled from crash building Firefly

 

 [quote]    

From: gyrodude <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 7:02 PM

Subject: 5 rib firestar



 

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com (gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com)>



I have a 5 rib older Firestar with a 377 Rotax. Sunday, It lost power so I put it down in an open field that had cotton grown on it last year. No big deal except in my wallet. I've been flying ultralights since the early eighties. Was a BFI. I'm sure this has been asked before. I have a zero time 503 that I can install if the 377 cannot be repaired at a reasonable price. I was told that it was not recommended but that some guys have done the swap. Thanks for any opinions, advice.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400572#40057r?Kolb-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List</



[b]

joepilot503

Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 13
Location: wyoming

Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

I bought a 5 rib back in 2003 and it had a 503, the guy said to use the xtra power for takeoff and climbing only and as long as you don't go over your VNE your good.  I flew the stock wings for four years then I restored the plane and made a custom modified cage to handle the 503 and modified the wings.  you can visit my website to see the mods, is this the thing to do I don't know? but I felt comfortable then and even more since the mods.



www.brianskolbfirestar.comlu.com

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:16 am Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

 	  Ralph B wrote: 	
		  A Rotax 503 would not only add more weight but also more power than the design can handle.Ralph B 	




I have heard this before, someone said the phrase was, "It would shake itself apart". I personally don't know. I have a Firestar I powered by a 503 DCDI but I have never flown it, it's ready for a re-cover. The fella I bought it from flew it this way. Not sure how many hours but there is only 28 hours on this engine. I have no idea what engine was on it before. Maybe the PO never used all of that power. Dunno.

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:46 am Post subject: 5 rib firestar

I bought a 5 rib back in 2003 and it had a 503, the guy said to use the xtra

power for takeoff and climbing only and as long as you don't go over your

VNE your good.  I flew the stock wings for four years then I restored the

plane and made a custom modified cage to handle the 503 and modified the

wings.  you can visit my website to see the mods, is this the thing to do I

don't know? but I felt comfortable then and even more since the mods.



www.brianskolbfirestar.comlu.com

 



Kolbers:



Did the same thing when I built my mkIII wings.  Was a little gun shy after

pulling the leading edges off my original Firestar 5 rib wing.  Made sure

that didn't happen to the new airplane.



I used two webs to brace the bow tip.  One straight out and one at 45

degrees.  Really stiffens the forward half of the bow tip.



Enjoyed your videos.  Nothing like flying out of your own airstrip.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

gyrodude

Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Stanfield N.C.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:47 am Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

I lucked out. It was a stuck ring. Theres no damage to the lower end. A new piston and I;m back in business. I'm a lightweight so the 377 is all the power that I need anyway. If anyone has need of a good Rotax mechanic D and F Aviation in Goldsboro N.C. is an authorized service center. Dwight does a lot of boring and sleeving for Lockwood, Leaf, CPS, etc. He works on all the two and four stroke models. He's a retired F-15 mechanic and has been working on Rotaxes a long time. he can be reached at 919-778-8816

gyrodude

Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 16
Location: Stanfield N.C.

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

My Rotax is back from the shop. I need to break it in. What is the best way to tie the plane down. Is the tailwheel assembly strong enough? Thanks.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

That is the way I do it... Firefly with 447....Herb

On 05/24/2013 03:18 PM, gyrodude wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My Rotax is back from the shop. I need to break it in. What is the best way to tie the plane down. Is the tailwheel assembly strong enough? Thanks.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401300#401300

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

I know one thing you ought to do!  Tie that tail wheel DOWN so it can't raise up under high power thrust!!



Lots of guys assumed just tying it to a tree was all it needed.  Wrong!  Under full throttle, it will rise up as the main gear wheels will roll reward!



Mike Welch



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 5 rib firestar

 From: gsafrit1@carolina.rr.com

 Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:18:19 -0700

 To: kolb-list@matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "gyrodude" <gsafrit1@carolina.rr.com>

 

 My Rotax is back from the shop. I need to break it in. What is the best way to tie the plane down. Is the tailwheel assembly strong enough? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401300#401300

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  [quote][b]

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

Same here... FF with 447... never had a problem using the tailwheel to

anchor.



Beauford

Do Not Archive

--

ThermalHunter

Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Cleveland, TN

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

I double-loop the rope around the boom, and tie the stick back so the elevator is up. 

 



    

From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 6:00 PM

Subject: RE: Re: 5 rib firestar



 

     I know one thing you ought to do!  Tie that tail wheel DOWN so it can't raise up under high power thrust!!



Lots of guys assumed just tying it to a tree was all it needed.  Wrong!  Under full throttle, it will rise up as the main gear wheels will roll reward!



Mike Welch



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

 From: gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com

 Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 13:18:19 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "gyrodude" <gsafrit1(at)carolina.rr.com>

 

 My Rotax is back from the shop. I need to break it in. What is the best way to tie the plane down. Is the tailwheel assembly strong enough? Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401300#401300

 

 

 

 

 

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 ===========

 

 

 


	


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Robert G

flyingfischead

Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 7

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

Hello 5 rib- This is a little late but I've not been on the site for a while. Anyway, I purchased a 5 rib Firestar restoration project a couple years ago and thought I would repower it from a 447 to a 503. While I had it stripped down to the frame, I took it by the new Kolb factory for some updates and asked the question about the 503 exchange. Their recommendation-don't do it. Having the extra power load on the frame is very stressful. The steel tube that the engine mounts to had a wall thickness thin enough to help with holding down weight to stay 103. When at full power in a climb, all of a sudden you fly into a thermal and really bump the strain on the mounting tube which could fold up. That's the explanation Dennis at Kolb gave me and after hearing that-made sense. I'm staying with the 447 but I have other issues with that engine I'm trying to figure out. The pull starter does not pull thru as it should. Feels like it has way to much compression and just bumps from stroke to stroke not able to spin it up. Any ideas welcome.

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: 5 rib firestar

Sounds like a full tear down is in order. Do not archive



Dennis "Skid" Rowe

Mk3, Rotax 670, 

Leechburg, PA



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Sep 20, 2014, at 10:48 AM, "flyingfischead" <flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hello 5 rib- This is a little late but I've not been on the site for a while. Anyway, I purchased a 5 rib Firestar restoration project a couple years ago and thought I would repower it from a 447 to a 503. While I had it stripped down to the frame, I took it by the new Kolb factory for some updates and asked the question about the 503 exchange. Their recommendation-don't do it. Having the extra power load on the frame is very stressful. The steel tube that the engine mounts to had a wall thickness thin enough to help with holding down weight to stay 103. When at full power in a climb, all of a sudden you fly into a thermal and really bump the strain on the mounting tube which could fold up. That's the explanation Dennis at Kolb gave me and after hearing that-made sense. I'm staying with the 447 but I have other issues with that engine I'm trying to figure out. The pull starter does not pull thru as it should. Feels like it has way to much compression and just bumps from stro!

 ke to stroke not able to spin it up. Any ideas welcome.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430823#430823

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

Either you have some extra drag on the pull rope, or you need to visit the local gym.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



---- flyingfischead <flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello 5 rib- This is a little late but I've not been on the site for a while. Anyway, I purchased a 5 rib Firestar restoration project a couple years ago and thought I would repower it from a 447 to a 503. While I had it stripped down to the frame, I took it by the new Kolb factory for some updates and asked the question about the 503 exchange. Their recommendation-don't do it. Having the extra power load on the frame is very stressful. The steel tube that the engine mounts to had a wall thickness thin enough to help with holding down weight to stay 103. When at full power in a climb, all of a sudden you fly into a thermal and really bump the strain on the mounting tube which could fold up. That's the explanation Dennis at Kolb gave me and after hearing that-made sense. I'm staying with the 447 but I have other issues with that engine I'm trying to figure out. The pull starter does not pull thru as it should. Feels like it has way to much compression and just bumps from str

 o!
	


 	  Quote: 	
		    ke to stroke not able to spin it up. Any ideas welcome.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430823#430823

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:20 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

Pull the plugs to see if it is something other than the engine at 

fault..Herb

On 09/20/2014 05:51 PM, jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Either you have some extra drag on the pull rope, or you need to visit the local gym.



 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama



 ---- flyingfischead <flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

> 

>

> Hello 5 rib- This is a little late but I've not been on the site for a while. Anyway, I purchased a 5 rib Firestar restoration project a couple years ago and thought I would repower it from a 447 to a 503. While I had it stripped down to the frame, I took it by the new Kolb factory for some updates and asked the question about the 503 exchange. Their recommendation-don't do it. Having the extra power load on the frame is very stressful. The steel tube that the engine mounts to had a wall thickness thin enough to help with holding down weight to stay 103. When at full power in a climb, all of a sudden you fly into a thermal and really bump the strain on the mounting tube which could fold up. That's the explanation Dennis at Kolb gave me and after hearing that-made sense. I'm staying with the 447 but I have other issues with that engine I'm trying to figure out. The pull starter does not pull thru as it should. Feels like it has way to much compression and just bumps from str

   o!

>   ke to stroke not able to spin it up. Any ideas welcome.

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430823#430823

>

>

flyingfischead

Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 7

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

well I attend the gym regularly with my Marine buddies who also have a hard time pulling the engine thru. With the plugs out, it pulls easy like it should. I had a 503 for 20 years and it never pulled like this. The pull starter was removed and checked out fine. Pistons look good as they should thru the exhaust ports. Put the plugs back in and major compression.

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:24 pm Post subject: Re: 5 rib firestar

Do you know the history of this engine? When was it last run? If the engine sat without proper storage procedures the pistons may have corroded, sticking the rings. If the rings of both cylinders are stuck the rope will be quite hard to pull. There will be no noticeable compression events, just a steady hard pull. Pull the exhaust, use a light, rotate engine and inspect the piston and rings. I have seen the pistons white with corrosion and completely ruined after just 1 season of neglected storage.

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:09 pm Post subject: 5 rib firestar

I had mud daubers make there way into the combustion chamber of a 447 that sat for some time. Mad it really hard to pull through, i.e. impossible. I pulled the head, cleaned it out good with a vacuum, then pulled the barrels to make sure there wasn't any damage to the rings or mud anywhere else. Once back together it was much easier to pull through and ran just fine.



Rick Girard

do not archive

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)>

 

 Pull the plugs to see if it is something other than the engine at fault..Herb

 On 09/20/2014 05:51 PM, jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com) wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 Either you have some extra drag on the pull rope, or you need to visit the local gym.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 ---- flyingfischead <flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com (flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: "flyingfischead" <flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com (flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com)>

 

 Hello 5 rib- This is a little late but I've not been on the site for a while. Anyway, I purchased a 5 rib Firestar restoration project a couple years ago and thought I would repower it from a 447 to a 503. While I had it stripped down to the frame, I took it by the new Kolb factory for some updates and asked the question about the 503 exchange. Their recommendation-don't do it. Having the extra power load on the frame is very stressful. The steel tube that the engine mounts to had a wall thickness thin enough to help with holding down weight to stay 103. When at full power in a climb, all of a sudden you fly into a thermal and really bump the strain on the mounting tube which could fold up. That's the explanation Dennis at Kolb gave me and after hearing that-made sense. I'm staying with the 447 but I have other issues with that engine I'm trying to figure out. The pull starter does not pull thru as it should. Feels like it has way to much compression and just bumps from s!

 	
	
 tr

  	  Quote: 	
		   Â  o!

  	  Quote: 	
		   Â  ke to stroke not able to spin it up. Any ideas welcome.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430823#430823

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 

 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

Â  - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:19 am Post subject: 5 rib firestar

Maybe excessive oil in the crankcase? Was the engine pickled? Do not archive



Dennis "Skid" Rowe

Mk3, Rotax 670, 

Leechburg, PA



[quote] On Sep 20, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 I had mud daubers make there way into the combustion chamber of a 447 that sat for some time. Mad it really hard to pull through, i.e. impossible. I pulled the head, cleaned it out good with a vacuum, then pulled the barrels to make sure there wasn't any damage to the rings or mud anywhere else. Once back together it was much easier to pull through and ran just fine.

 

 Rick Girard

 do not archive

 

> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 6:20 PM, Herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> Pull the plugs to see if it is something other than the engine at fault..Herb

>> On 09/20/2014 05:51 PM, jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> Either you have some extra drag on the pull rope, or you need to visit the local gym.

>> 

>> john h

>> mkIII

>> Titus, Alabama

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> ---- flyingfischead <flyingfischead(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Hello 5 rib- This is a little late but I've not been on the site for a while. Anyway, I purchased a 5 rib Firestar restoration project a couple years ago and thought I would repower it from a 447 to a 503. While I had it stripped down to the frame, I took it by the new Kolb factory for some updates and asked the question about the 503 exchange. Their recommendation-don't do it. Having the extra power load on the frame is very stressful. The steel tube that the engine mounts to had a wall thickness thin enough to help with holding down weight to stay 103. When at full power in a climb, all of a sudden you fly into a thermal and really bump the strain on the mounting tube which could fold up. That's the explanation Dennis at Kolb gave me and after hearing that-made sense. I'm staying with the 447 but I have other issues with that engine I'm trying to figure out. The pull starter does not pull thru as it should. Feels like it has way to much compression and just bumps from s!

> tr

>>   o!

>>>   ke to stroke not able to spin it up. Any ideas welcome.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Read this topic online here:

>>> 

>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=430823#430823

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> =========================>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

> =========================>> FORUMS -

> _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

> =========================>> b Site -

>           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

> =========================>> 

> 

> 

 

 

 

 -- 

 Zulu Delta

 Mk IIIC

 Thanks, Homer GBYM

 

 It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy

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