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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
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 Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:58 am Post subject: Gas leak |
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I have an old Firestar, with a 447sc, "B" box 2.58, and a two blade Warp prop. I have had a little trouble tracing a gas leak on the Bing 54. When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder. At this point, gas drips from the bottom of the bowl. I changed the bowl gasket- looked a little crushed. The gas line clamp was a little too big, leaving a flat spot when it wasn't compressed in a full circle. The idle air screw "O" ring was a little loose. Fixed both problems. Could the low idle be shaking the floats enough that gas is just overflowing? I can't get really close enough to check it running, with the fan there and all that. The engine also starts right up with the enricher, but I have to play with the throttle to keep it that way for a few seconds. I think that is normal.
At 2000 rpm, very smooth, no vibration or shaking, and I don't see gas until I slow it down to shut it down.
Ideas, anyone?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
original FS, 447
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:44 am Post subject: Gas leak |
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William, You might need to have the gearbox rebuilt to set the proper pressure of the belleville washers that keep pressure on the drive dogs. 1600 is a little low for idle anyway so bump it up to 1800 and see if it will smooth out there when it is fully warmed up. You might want to close down the gap on the spark plugs a couple of thousandths too just to see if that helps.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 11:57 AM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |  I have an old Firestar, with a 447sc, "B" box 2.58, and a two blade Warp prop. I have had a little trouble tracing a gas leak on the Bing 54. When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder. At this point, gas drips from the bottom of the bowl. I changed the bowl gasket- looked a little crushed. The gas line clamp was a little too big, leaving a flat spot when it wasn't compressed in a full circle. The idle air screw "O" ring was a little loose. Fixed both problems. Could the low idle be shaking the floats enough that gas is just overflowing? I can't get really close enough to check it running, with the fan there and all that. The engine also starts right up with the enricher, but I have to play with the throttle to keep it that way for a few seconds. I think that is normal.
 At 2000 rpm, very smooth, no vibration or shaking, and I don't see gas until I slow it down to shut it down.Â
 Ideas, anyone?
                                                                      Bill Sullivan
                                                                      Windsor Locks, Ct.
                                                                       original FS, 447
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: Gas leak |
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yes the fuel can shake and come out the float bowl vent into the inlet of the carb. it usually will drip from the bottom of the air cleaner. and somewhere I have seen a drip tray that can be added to keep that from happening.... I don’t remember where I have seen it.... but if idling faster will eliminate the problem... that is your answer. my throttle stop is set lower because the enrichener works better at a more closed setting, but as soon as it is started, I idle at no less than 1800 but usually closer to 2000.the gear box likes it better there . if the inside of the air cleaner is dry and the float bowl is wet, I am not sure where you could be having a problem... if you take the carb off and cap the inlet and outlet and with very light pressure blow into the fuel inlet and see if you can determine any leaks. depending on where a leak may be, it could cause you to run lean.
good luck
boyd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Could the low idle be shaking the floats enough that gas is just overflowing?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
original FS, 447
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. [quote][b]
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litefly(at)att.net
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: Gas leak |
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You don't have a leak. You idle at start up is too low. Besides dripping gas out of the overflow, your wrecking your gear box. Min. rpm should be 1800- 2000 as has already been suggested.
On Sep 23, 2014, at 12:57 PM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:
[quote] I have an old Firestar, with a 447sc, "B" box 2.58, and a two blade Warp prop. I have had a little trouble tracing a gas leak on the Bing 54. When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder. At this point, gas drips from the bottom of the bowl. I changed the bowl gasket- looked a little crushed. The gas line clamp was a little too big, leaving a flat spot when it wasn't compressed in a full circle. The idle air screw "O" ring was a little loose. Fixed both problems. Could the low idle be shaking the floats enough that gas is just overflowing? I can't get really close enough to check it running, with the fan there and all that. The engine also starts right up with the enricher, but I have to play with the throttle to keep it that way for a few seconds. I think that is normal.
At 2000 rpm, very smooth, no vibration or shaking, and I don't see gas until I slow it down to shut it down.
Ideas, anyone?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
original FS, 447
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WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: Gas leak |
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In a message dated 9/23/2014 12:58:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:
| Quote: | When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder.
Hi Bill,
Are you getting your FireStar ready to fly?
As some others have already pointed out, I think your idle RPM is way too low. I have mine set at 2100 RPM and it idles really smooth. However, it does cause hard starting because the enrichener jet (choke) doesn't work well, if at all, at the higher idle setting.
I installed a primer system that directs fuel to the carb. (not the primer Bulb), but found out that it doesn't work so well for me either. When the plane sits for a week or so between flights, most of the fuel in the primer line leaks back into the fuel tank. So when I push/pull the primer knob, I can never tell whether it is sending fuel to the carb. or not. I usually end up flooding it.
My current procedure to start is to first use the primer Bulb to bring fuel up from the tank to the float bowl. Then I turn the idle screw back two turns, apply the enrichener and pull until it starts. I then use the throttle to vary the RPM until it gets warmed up and then shut it down. Go back and turn the idle screw back to its original position. Restart and go flying.
Hope this helps,
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
(First flight 1994=20 years)
Audubon NJ
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: Gas leak |
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Been a while, but I believe I set low idle on my 447 at 1600. Once started on the enricher, immediately idled up to 2000. That took all the rattle out of the gear box. Kept at 2000 with throttle.
john
---- WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | In a message dated 9/23/2014 12:58:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:
When idling at 1600 rpm, the engine shakes pretty good, and will shudder.
Hi Bill,
Are you getting your FireStar ready to fly?
As some others have already pointed out, I think your idle RPM is way too
low. I have mine set at 2100 RPM and it idles really smooth. However, it
does cause hard starting because the enrichener jet (choke) doesn't work
well, if at all, at the higher idle setting.
I installed a primer system that directs fuel to the carb. (not the primer
Bulb), but found out that it doesn't work so well for me either. When the
plane sits for a week or so between flights, most of the fuel in the
primer line leaks back into the fuel tank. So when I push/pull the primer knob,
I can never tell whether it is sending fuel to the carb. or not. I
usually end up flooding it.
My current procedure to start is to first use the primer Bulb to bring
fuel up from the tank to the float bowl. Then I turn the idle screw back two
turns, apply the enrichener and pull until it starts. I then use the
throttle to vary the RPM until it gets warmed up and then shut it down. Go back
and turn the idle screw back to its original position. Restart and go
flying.
Hope this helps,
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
(First flight 1994 years)
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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Ducati SS
Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Gas leak |
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I suspect that due to the low idle speed and shaking some fuel is splashing around and exiting the atmospheric vents. The carb relies on atmospheric pressure to push the fuel up thru the jets to the lower pressure area of the venturi. So there are ports that allow atmospheric pressure directly into the float chamber. The problem may be aggravated by a higher than normal fuel level if the floats and inlet needle are bouncing and allowing fuel past the valve. Do not let the engine shake like that, not only is it bad for the gear box but it will fatigue, damage and wear engine parts as well.
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