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Ernie
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513
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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:02 am Post subject: Removing GIB Controls |
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I've been contemplating the pro's and con's of Rear Cockpit controls for Gear, Flaps, Mags and Emergency Blowdown.
For me personally, 90% of the time the rear seat is empty, 90% of the time the rear seat is occupied it's with a non-pilot passenger. I don't ever expect to be giving instruction from the rear seat or allowing anyone else to use my plane for such purposes. When I consider the extra points of failure in the rear seat, the complexity it adds to the air circuits, and the very real possibility of inadvertent manipulation of a gear, flap or mag switch, plus the additional sources of air leaks, the argument for removal is strong.
Other than re-sale or dual instruction considerations, I can't see how the redundancy benefit (albeit only when theres someone back there) outweighs what I outlined above.
I know some folks have just removed the handles, from the Valves, but I'm talking about complete removal to simplify the air system and make it more reliable.
The plumbing job is rather easy. And reversing it is just as easy.
Thoughts????
Ernie
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:26 am Post subject: Removing GIB Controls |
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Mags...yes. Fix gear slider to prevent a gear UP from rear. Maybe fuel shut off but leave the rest. Yep... Very seldom used but on those occasions when you get to allow a non pilot GIB to fly for 2 minutes... Well, priceless. JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Ernest Martinez <erniel29(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I've been contemplating the pro's and con's of Rear Cockpit controls for Gear, Flaps, Mags and Emergency Blowdown.
For me personally, 90% of the time the rear seat is empty, 90% of the time the rear seat is occupied it's with a non-pilot passenger. I don't ever expect to be giving instruction from the rear seat or allowing anyone else to use my plane for such purposes. When I consider the extra points of failure in the rear seat, the complexity it adds to the air circuits, and the very real possibility of inadvertent manipulation of a gear, flap or mag switch, plus the additional sources of air leaks, the argument for removal is strong.
Other than re-sale or dual instruction considerations, I can't see how the redundancy benefit (albeit only when theres someone back there) outweighs what I outlined above.
I know some folks have just removed the handles, from the Valves, but I'm talking about complete removal to simplify the air system and make it more reliable.
The plumbing job is rather easy. And reversing it is just as easy.
Thoughts????
Ernie
[quote][b]
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Ernie
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 513
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:19 am Post subject: Removing GIB Controls |
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Jon,
I wasn't referring to flight controls, just gear flaps.
On Sep 20, 2014, at 8:23 AM, j blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
[quote]Mags...yes. Fix gear slider to prevent a gear UP from rear. Maybe fuel shut off but leave the rest. Yep... Very seldom used but on those occasions when you get to allow a non pilot GIB to fly for 2 minutes... Well, priceless. JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Ernest Martinez <erniel29(at)gmail.com (erniel29(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
I've been contemplating the pro's and con's of Rear Cockpit controls for Gear, Flaps, Mags and Emergency Blowdown.
For me personally, 90% of the time the rear seat is empty, 90% of the time the rear seat is occupied it's with a non-pilot passenger. I don't ever expect to be giving instruction from the rear seat or allowing anyone else to use my plane for such purposes. When I consider the extra points of failure in the rear seat, the complexity it adds to the air circuits, and the very real possibility of inadvertent manipulation of a gear, flap or mag switch, plus the additional sources of air leaks, the argument for removal is strong.
Other than re-sale or dual instruction considerations, I can't see how the redundancy benefit (albeit only when theres someone back there) outweighs what I outlined above.
I know some folks have just removed the handles, from the Valves, but I'm talking about complete removal to simplify the air system and make it more reliable.
The plumbing job is rather easy. And reversing it is just as easy.
Thoughts????
Ernie
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:58 am Post subject: Removing GIB Controls |
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Gear, Flaps, Simply remove the handles. During annual condition inspections you can put the handles on for the testing, than off again.
Mags. You can drill a safety wire hole though the flat of the switch and safety it to one of the mounting screws. You can use copper wire IF you don't want to give up ALL the possibility of turning the engine off. Remember to safety wire or block the selector switch above it to front cockpit control.
Emergency Blowdown. Again simply take off the handle or heavy safety wire it.
One thing I would do which is a little more work but simple. Re run a line from the QS1 valve direct to the QS2 valve. This bypasses the brake cutout valve on the rear control stick. Eliminates in advertent use and removes a number failure points in the air systems.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 9/20/2014 9:20:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, erniel29(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | Jon,
I wasn't referring to flight controls, just gear flaps.
On Sep 20, 2014, at 8:23 AM, j blake <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Mags...yes. Fix gear slider to prevent a gear UP from rear. Maybe fuel shut off but leave the rest. Yep... Very seldom used but on those occasions when you get to allow a non pilot GIB to fly for 2 minutes... Well, priceless. JB
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Ernest Martinez <erniel29(at)gmail.com (erniel29(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
I've been contemplating the pro's and con's of Rear Cockpit controls for Gear, Flaps, Mags and Emergency Blowdown.
For me personally, 90% of the time the rear seat is empty, 90% of the time the rear seat is occupied it's with a non-pilot passenger. I don't ever expect to be giving instruction from the rear seat or allowing anyone else to use my plane for such purposes. When I consider the extra points of failure in the rear seat, the complexity it adds to the air circuits, and the very real possibility of inadvertent manipulation of a gear, flap or mag switch, plus the additional sources of air leaks, the argument for removal is strong.
Other than re-sale or dual instruction considerations, I can't see how the redundancy benefit (albeit only when theres someone back there) outweighs what I outlined above.
I know some folks have just removed the handles, from the Valves, but I'm talking about complete removal to simplify the air system and make it more reliable.
The plumbing job is rather easy. And reversing it is just as easy.
Thoughts????
Ernie
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========================//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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