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Yak-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/09/14

 
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norske.fly(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:31 pm    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/09/14 Reply with quote
I'm very interested in this thread asI have the same problem in my Nanchang, first major system air leak since purchase in 1996!
Skip Syfield

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]*

 =========================
   Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
 =========================

Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below.  The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation.  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

    http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2014-10-09&Archive=Yak

Text Version:

    http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2014-10-09&Archive=Yak


 =======================
   EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
 =======================


           ----------------------------------------------------------
                           Yak-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Thu 10/09/14: 3
           ----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 06:22 AM - Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of)  (Rico Jaeger)
     2. 09:48 AM - Re: Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of)  (A. Dennis Savarese)
     3. 09:55 AM - Re: Emergency Air (Or Lack Of)  (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 06:22:13 AM PST US
From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)>
Subject: Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of)

Hi=2C All!
The Yaklist was unusually quiet this week=2C so I felt it my duty to increa
se it's usefulness... Smile
I don't know what's going on w/ my emergency air.  The Yak sat idle from ab
out November to April (with regular and frequent prop turnings). Emergency
air was...well...air-tight up until spring. Then I noticed it was leaking o
ff as our thaw commenced. I thought...cold WI Winter...seals shrink / expan
d / become brittle. I did a retract test in Spring and both air sources ope
rated the gear w/o issue. However=2C the emergency leak has gotten worse an
d worse - to the point of where I'm losing the entire load in 24 hours.  Th
ere is no audible hiss. I replaced O-rings in both emergency cockpit master
 valves and the top of the emergency bottle. I got a kit from Jill and redi
d the 1st check valve in-line from the external fill port. The year before
I went through all 3 actuators / shuttle valves.  Main air is tighter than.
.(boy=2C it's tempting to be inappropriate here)...tighter than something
that is VERY tight. I have 95% or better main air between starts and down t
ime of better than a week. I did the bubble trick and only found a tiny lea
k at the top of the bottle=2C but - as previously stated - it is now sealed
. Compared to the primary system=2C the emergency system is pretty straight
 forward=2C but...??? I don't know. Short of chocking the thing in the deep
 end of the school pool to see where the Jacuzzi action originates from=2C
I'm out of ideas. Thoughts?
Thank you ALL!

Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
                                                                    //
1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X
N8558G                                                  //Hangar #35 / AUW
                                                  //
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X
N21YK                                   //Hangar #21 / AUW




________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 09:48:01 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Subject: Re: Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of)

With the emergency air bottle filled, did you try spraying soapy water
on the external air fill port?  You can even put a small dab of saliva
on the port to see if there are any air bubbles.  If there are air
bubbles, the emergency air check valve is leaking. The check valve is
located just inside the fuselage behind the external air fill port.

Let me know what you find.
Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese
[url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url] (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 10/9/2014 8:20 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
> Hi, All!
>
> The Yaklist was unusually quiet this week, so I felt it my duty to
> increase it's usefulness... Smile
>
> I don't know what's going on w/ my emergency air.  The Yak sat idle
> from about November to April (with regular and frequent prop
> turnings). Emergency air was...well...air-tight up until spring. Then
> I noticed it was leaking off as our thaw commenced. I thought...cold
> WI Winter...seals shrink / expand / become brittle. I did a retract
> test in Spring and both air sources operated the gear w/o issue.
> However, the emergency leak has gotten worse and worse - to the point
> of where I'm losing the entire load in 24 hours.  There is no audible
> hiss. I replaced O-rings in both emergency cockpit master valves and
> the top of the emergency bottle. I got a kit from Jill and redid the
> 1st check valve in-line from the external fill port. The year before I
> went through all 3 actuators / shuttle valves.  Main air is tighter
> than...(boy, it's tempting to be inappropriate here)...tighter than
> something that is VERY tight. I have 95% or better main air between
> starts and down time of better than a week. I did the bubble trick and
> only found a tiny leak at the top of the bottle, but - as previously
> stated - it is now sealed. Compared to the primary system, the
> emergency system is pretty straight forward, but...??? I don't know.
> Short of chocking the thing in the deep end of the school pool to see
> where the Jacuzzi action originates from, I'm out of ideas. Thoughts?
>
> Thank you ALL!
>
> Rico Jaeger
> 915 S. 11th Ave.
> Wausau, WI. 54401
> 715.529.7426
>       //
> 1966 Cessna 150F                            ^/---//-X
> N8558G                                                  //
> Hangar #35 / AUW
> //
> 1992 Yakovlev Yak 52    ^/---//-X
> N21YK                                   //
> Hangar #21 / AUW
>
>
> *
>
>
> *


________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 09:55:59 AM PST US
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
Subject: RE: Emergency Air (Or Lack Of)


Two methods come to mind.   One is the "find it" approach using an Ultrasonic Leak
Detector.  They work.  Google.  But you need a nice quiet hangar,  and .....
diligence/patience (hard for me too, I like instant results!).

Second, since you are competent in the design of the air system on the 52, and
since it leaks this quickly, you can try to narrow down where it is happening.
 There are two ways to go about this.  You will need some compressed air or
nitrogen, which I am assuming you have access to.   Start by simply disconnecting
one of the air-lines going downstream from the bottle.  Disconnect a line
and cap it.  See if you have bleed-down.   If not, reconnect and go downstream
further.  You get the idea.   For example, when you come to the one way check
valve leading to the external air connection, just disconnect the line before
the one way check valve and cap it.  See if you have leak-down.   This at least
gets you into the ball-park of where the leak is.

The second method is to reverse engineer the leak.  I am lucky enough to have a
high pressure portable compressed air bottle with a regulator.   Using something
like this you can pressurize whatever part of the system you want, and look
for leaks ... same method as above really (just in reverse) and a truly great
method for finding leaks in compressors, banjo fittings, snot valves,  etc.
 I understand that is NOT your problem at this time, just mentioning it for future
reference.

Mark


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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 3 Msgs - 10/09/14 Reply with quote
Over the years, every time my CJ's emergency air diminishes after shutdown, it's been a deteriorating rubber disk in the check valve on the north side of the start solenoid on the starboard side of the firewall. Have I just been lucky?

Blitz Fox415-307-2405
On Oct 10, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Frederick Slyfield <norske.fly(at)gmail.com (norske.fly(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]I'm very interested in this thread asI have the same problem in my Nanchang, first major system air leak since purchase in 1996!
Skip Syfield

On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Yak-List Digest Server <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]*

=========================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=========================

Today's complete Yak-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Yak-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.

HTML Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2014-10-09&Archive=Yak

Text Version:

http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2014-10-09&Archive=Yak


=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================


----------------------------------------------------------
Yak-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 10/09/14: 3
----------------------------------------------------------


Today's Message Index:
----------------------

1. 06:22 AM - Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of) (Rico Jaeger)
2. 09:48 AM - Re: Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of) (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 09:55 AM - Re: Emergency Air (Or Lack Of) (Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD)



________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________


Time: 06:22:13 AM PST US
From: Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)>
Subject: Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of)

Hi=2C All!
The Yaklist was unusually quiet this week=2C so I felt it my duty to increa
se it's usefulness... Smile
I don't know what's going on w/ my emergency air. The Yak sat idle from ab
out November to April (with regular and frequent prop turnings). Emergency
air was...well...air-tight up until spring. Then I noticed it was leaking o
ff as our thaw commenced. I thought...cold WI Winter...seals shrink / expan
d / become brittle. I did a retract test in Spring and both air sources ope
rated the gear w/o issue. However=2C the emergency leak has gotten worse an
d worse - to the point of where I'm losing the entire load in 24 hours.  Th
ere is no audible hiss. I replaced O-rings in both emergency cockpit master
valves and the top of the emergency bottle. I got a kit from Jill and redi
d the 1st check valve in-line from the external fill port. The year before
I went through all 3 actuators / shuttle valves. Main air is tighter than.
.(boy=2C it's tempting to be inappropriate here)...tighter than something
that is VERY tight. I have 95% or better main air between starts and down t
ime of better than a week. I did the bubble trick and only found a tiny lea
k at the top of the bottle=2C but - as previously stated - it is now sealed
. Compared to the primary system=2C the emergency system is pretty straight
forward=2C but...??? I don't know. Short of chocking the thing in the deep
end of the school pool to see where the Jacuzzi action originates from=2C
I'm out of ideas. Thoughts?
Thank you ALL!

Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau=2C WI. 54401
715.529.7426
    //
1966 Cessna 150F   ^/---//-X
N8558G     //Hangar #35 / AUW
  //
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK   //Hangar #21 / AUW




________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________


Time: 09:48:01 AM PST US
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Subject: Re: Emergecy Air (Or Lack Of)

With the emergency air bottle filled, did you try spraying soapy water
on the external air fill port? You can even put a small dab of saliva
on the port to see if there are any air bubbles. If there are air
bubbles, the emergency air check valve is leaking. The check valve is
located just inside the fuselage behind the external air fill port.

Let me know what you find.
Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese
[url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url] (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 10/9/2014 8:20 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
> Hi, All!
>
> The Yaklist was unusually quiet this week, so I felt it my duty to
> increase it's usefulness... Smile
>
> I don't know what's going on w/ my emergency air. The Yak sat idle
> from about November to April (with regular and frequent prop
> turnings). Emergency air was...well...air-tight up until spring. Then
> I noticed it was leaking off as our thaw commenced. I thought...cold
> WI Winter...seals shrink / expand / become brittle. I did a retract
> test in Spring and both air sources operated the gear w/o issue.
> However, the emergency leak has gotten worse and worse - to the point
> of where I'm losing the entire load in 24 hours. There is no audible
> hiss. I replaced O-rings in both emergency cockpit master valves and
> the top of the emergency bottle. I got a kit from Jill and redid the
> 1st check valve in-line from the external fill port. The year before I
> went through all 3 actuators / shuttle valves. Main air is tighter
> than...(boy, it's tempting to be inappropriate here)...tighter than
> something that is VERY tight. I have 95% or better main air between
> starts and down time of better than a week. I did the bubble trick and
> only found a tiny leak at the top of the bottle, but - as previously
> stated - it is now sealed. Compared to the primary system, the
> emergency system is pretty straight forward, but...??? I don't know.
> Short of chocking the thing in the deep end of the school pool to see
> where the Jacuzzi action originates from, I'm out of ideas. Thoughts?
>
> Thank you ALL!
>
> Rico Jaeger
> 915 S. 11th Ave.
> Wausau, WI. 54401
> 715.529.7426
> //
> 1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
> N8558G     //
> Hangar #35 / AUW
> //
> 1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
> N21YK   //
> Hangar #21 / AUW
>
>
> *
>
>
> *


________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________


Time: 09:55:59 AM PST US
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
Subject: RE: Emergency Air (Or Lack Of)


Two methods come to mind. One is the "find it" approach using an Ultrasonic Leak
Detector. They work. Google. But you need a nice quiet hangar, and .....
diligence/patience (hard for me too, I like instant results!).

Second, since you are competent in the design of the air system on the 52, and
since it leaks this quickly, you can try to narrow down where it is happening.
There are two ways to go about this. You will need some compressed air or
nitrogen, which I am assuming you have access to. Start by simply disconnecting
one of the air-lines going downstream from the bottle. Disconnect a line
and cap it. See if you have bleed-down. If not, reconnect and go downstream
further. You get the idea. For example, when you come to the one way check
valve leading to the external air connection, just disconnect the line before
the one way check valve and cap it. See if you have leak-down.  This at least
gets you into the ball-park of where the leak is.

The second method is to reverse engineer the leak. I am lucky enough to have a
high pressure portable compressed air bottle with a regulator. Using something
like this you can pressurize whatever part of the system you want, and look
for leaks ... same method as above really (just in reverse) and a truly great
method for finding leaks in compressors, banjo fittings, snot valves, etc.
I understand that is NOT your problem at this time, just mentioning it for future
reference.

Mark


--

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
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