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Stall speed / GPS

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Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

Dag-nab-it. I responded to an individual from my e-mail and thought I was responding to the BBS! Oh well. Some of you will have some fun with this. It combines my stall speed problem and responses with some information regarding GPS's. 

"HEY MATT!!! Do we still use the do not archive or not"!



with that said here is what I responded to George E. Thompson.



Great idea George and others. And back at the last (second flight) I set my Garmin e-map into the firestar before my instructor moved the plane from my old airport to his field. With a program called mapsource and a cable to connect the GPS to the computer, I was able to download the information and view it as a doc and on the map program (Roads and Recreation). I have enclosed a copy of the doc file for your and others viewing pleasure / evaluation. 



 



Also with the mapsource program I can see graphically, though I can’t seem to capture and download to a file for others to read or see the altitude for every crumb. I also through the program can see every move he made with the plane, two circles and several straight paths. He indicated that he did two stalls. With the documentation provided you in the 110.doc, can you find them?



 



I really appreciate this web site, especially on rainy cold days. Thanks guys.



 



Ralph “the other Ralph” Hoover…..(verses the Good Ralph on this site).

John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stall speed / GPS

Ralph,



Interesting file to look at, but without knowing the winds, I don't think it really tells you anything.



Here is how I check my airspeed: First, I pick a day without much wind. Then, I try to determine which way the wind is going by watching for drift and comparing the GPS with the airspeed. When I think I am going straight into the wind, I fly a a chosen airspeed and make note of the GPS. Then I turn around 180 degrees, hold the same speed, and get the GPS reading. If I average the GPS readings, I should have a true airspeed. This process can be repeated to give a more accurate average. It also can be done for different airspeeds. As long as the wind is steady and reading are taken while flying nearly into the wind and 180 degrees downwind, the results sould be decent. Flying in any other direction and trying to average will introduce an error. 



To check for accuracy at stall speed, I do the above check at 5 over and assume that the difference is the same. My Firestar stalls at 38 or 39 when not in ground effect, 40 indicated, and 3 to 4 mph slower in ground effect. 



I never count on ground effect. I never really noticed it when I landed it on short grass strips, but I do when I ease it onto a paved runway.

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:35 am Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

My Firestar stalls at 38 or 39 when not in ground effect>>



Hi All,



I am a bit surprised that anyone knows the stalling speed when low  enough 

to  be in ground effect.  I don`t think I have ever looked at the ASI after 

coming `over the hedge` and certainly not after the round out.

Surely at that part of the landing you should be looking at `the picture` 

through the windscreen, keeping wings level and `feeling` for the ground, 

not looking at instruments.



Cheers



Pat 



--

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:24 am Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

At 10:31 AM 1/14/06 -0000, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



My Firestar stalls at 38 or 39 when not in ground effect>>



Hi All,



I am a bit surprised that anyone knows the stalling speed when low  enough 

to  be in ground effect.  I don`t think I have ever looked at the ASI after 

coming `over the hedge` and certainly not after the round out.

Surely at that part of the landing you should be looking at `the picture` 

through the windscreen, keeping wings level and `feeling` for the ground, 

not looking at instruments.




	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Cheers



Pat 




	


Pat,



The easiest and may be the safest way to determine ground effect stall speed 

is to tease the plane off the ground in the three point stance.  Pick a no 

wind day and use a hard surface runway and inflate the tires to the max limit 

to minimize the rolling resistance.  For the FireFly to lift off in the 

three point stance, I apply about 5 degrees flaperon and I hold the stick 

back against the stop.  By very slowly advancing the throttle, you can get 

it to float off at minimum air speed.  If the runway is long enough you can 

back off the throttle and repeat the process several times.



This is the method, I used to determine wing vortex generator placement 

effect on the FireFly.  With a little practice you can become very good at 

flying at minimum speed a foot or so above the runway while keeping an eye 

on the ASI.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

kinnepix(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:00 am Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

Pat

That's what that cute sexy little blonde passenger is for! Let her do  

the looking --

Russ

do not achive



On Jan 14, 2006, at 4:31 AM, pat ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My Firestar stalls at 38 or 39 when not in ground effect>>



 Hi All,



 I am a bit surprised that anyone knows the stalling speed when low   

 enough

 to  be in ground effect.  I don`t think I have ever looked at the  

 ASI after

 coming `over the hedge` and certainly not after the round out.

 Surely at that part of the landing you should be looking at `the  

 picture`

 through the windscreen, keeping wings level and `feeling` for the  

 ground,

 not looking at instruments.



 Cheers



 Pat



 --

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Stall speed / GPS

 	  kinnepix(at)earthlink.net wrote: 	
		  Pat

That's what that cute sexy little blonde passenger is for! Let her do  

the looking --

Russ

	




My thoughts exactly, you beat me to it

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Jung

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: Stall speed / GPS

Pat,



After 10 years of flying Firestars, I can fly a few feet over the runway, watch the airspeed, and fly by feel, without having to stare at the runway. It is a lot like keeping a car in the lane on the highway while watching the scenery, never staring at the road. It is a really good feeling to have a plane that feels like it is an extension on me.

_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ

ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:41 am Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

Here in Minnesota we fly our Firestars inches above the frozen lakes. We fly for miles in ground effect only occasionally looking at the airspeed indicator. We are flying by feel and if we stall, the plane lands.



This is what we do here in the frozen northland.



Time to move back up here John J  



Ralph

Original Firestar

19 years flying it

-- "John Jung" <jrjungjr(at)yahoo.com> wrote:




Pat,



After 10 years of flying Firestars, I can fly a few feet over the runway, watch the airspeed, and fly by feel, without having to stare at the runway. It is a lot like keeping a car in the lane on the highway while watching the scenery, never staring at the road. It is a really good feeling to have a plane that feels like it is an extension on me.



--------

John Jung

Firestar II N6163J

Surprise, AZ





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=4072#4072





 

 

 

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

The easiest and may be the safest way to determine ground effect stall speed 

is to tease the plane off the ground in the three point stance.>>



Hi,

I am sure you are right. When I leave the ground my object (usually) is to 

get as far from it as quickly  as possible. Bad things don `t happen when 

you are flying. Its when you touch the hard stuff that all the nasties 

start.

I saw a TV thing last night and one of the characters said "You shouldn`t be 

afraid of flying. Its crashing you should be afraid of``. That about sums it 

up.

Low flying should be done with bags of speed not messing about around the 

stall.

A couple of good pictures exist. One is a Sunderland flying boat (its a big 

plane, 4 engines and 2 decks) flying down the runway at Phenurpai (Sp) in 

New Zealand with dust and bits of plane flying into the air. The other is a 

painting which depicts a Boston or a Havoc during the first raid which the 

Americans made on the Continent (I think they borrowed the planes from the 

RAF) to celebrate the anniversary of the Yanks arrival in the UK. One hit 

the runway, it was supposed to be low level, but bounced back into the air 

and made it home.



In my book, unless you are landing,  low level and low speed are not 

comfortable bed mates.



Cheers



Pat 



--

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: Stall speed / GPS

That's what that cute sexy little blonde passenger is for! >>



Hi Russ,

you wouldn`t trust a blonde to give you the right time of day, let alone 

your airspeed,



Pat



do not archive 



--

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