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Checking XL parts (plans building) LONG (can delete)

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ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: Checking XL parts (plans building) LONG (can delete)

Do not archive.

   

  Hello Tom,

  Personal experience, you can delete or read on as you want,  hope it helps you to get the "sweet and rewarding feeling of home building" and flying your own "Creation".

   

  Sure,  lots of improvement can be done to any set of plans and kits in the market.  But that also goes hand by hand with  COST and availability...  If we are building a kit or plans built airplane, instead of buying a new C-182 IFR "glass"  panel  or a pressurized Lancair (built by professionals "kit" assemblers), is because final cost of our airplane IS important. 

   

  In my point of view,  given that I have already built 6 airplanes (now building # 7)  all of them in different materials (1 tube and cloth,  2 wood, 1 composite, 1 with aluminum ladders (yes, is true),  1 aluminum (701)  and now building a 601  XL .   I have gone also though several set of plans,  some can only be named  "instructive sketches" instead of plans, also most of this were built by me before the great help of Internet lists!!!  (now we can ask how could we build one without this GREAT help)...   

   

  Building from plans (earlier in time called blueprints)  is (was) for sure more a FUN and LEARNING process that a "Lego  fit and push"  assembly process, like a computer desk we buy at Home Depot in a box...  

   

  When I built my first airplane, it was a wood construction type, made from raw material  (VP-1).   My experience with wood at that time, was only making a camp fire      Several times during the building process I wanted to burn it,,,  But with help of a local builder friend and lots of persistence, the plane was  completed, flown and is still flying (new owner, cant keep all my toys 

   

  The important part of building a plane is, once you decided the type of flying and the plane you are going to build, is Think Positive Always!   

   

  The average of plans built completed projects is about 10%  (kits can be a little higher because they are LOTS more easy to built).   

   

  But if you don't stand in front of your project with a smile, every day you are going to  start work on it, and try to solve with patience and will all the (little, once they are solved) problems you encounter,  please don't start any project,  there are enough of  partial built  airplanes in garages and at e-bay to add one more... when you see your parts you have completed, imagine the complete airplane with you flying inside the cabin...

   

   There is a very "romantic" builder in the Club that once made this similarity at a hangar talk one evening:

  Think of your project like an affair with a pretty women that you cant get her image away from your mind....   A good affair, one that you will really enjoy.

  When you receive your kit, is like the first time you ask her to dinner,  and the maiden flight is when you take her out for a weekend the first time :-0 ...   If  you enjoy the "building" process, is interesting and demanding, you will fly her lots of years with happiness,  or the other way if you don't want to go to all this process, you just need to  "call" (the local FBO) and "rent"  one (C-150)  any Saturday      

   

  Another point we have to take in account is, that any home built, is the brain child of a designer, most of them are designed around  their flying needs and most (not the Zenith case of course)  the plans are drawn from building sketches and memory once the plane is flying and people around start asking for plans (at least this is what used to be in the beguining of homebuilding)...  so they can be not "that" perfectly accurate.

   

  The kit build airplane is far more elaborate,  there is always a team working with the Designer, to improve the actual designs, they use their experience, knowledge and  the comments from builders (our comments and complains help a lot) to make this improvements,  but we all have to be part of this happy group, remember we are the "Ten Per Centers Builder and Flying Group" so this makes US very exclusive!    

   

  Another good thing is that the Factory (anyone) is in constant improvement, and the Designer (most of the cases a Genius)  is always thinking and  designing a new kit.  See  Zenith, RV and some other serious kit manufacturers as example...  They never stop bringing  new designs,  so we always receive great support, not only while building, but also the time we keep our girlfriend (oops, airplane)    

   

  Welcome to the group and enjoy your "half full" glass of water... (is not half empty, off course). 

   

  Saludos

  Gary "Compulsive Builder" Gower  

  Flying from Chapala, Mexico.

    



Tom and Bren Henderson <admin(at)arachnidrobotics.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		        You'd be surprised at how many discrepancies you find when you start laying the 601XL out in a 3D CAD package for  fabrication.  Skins run off at strange angles to spars, parts are miss-aligned by more than an inch or two, etc.  Obviously the airplane can be built safely and soundly using the existing plans, but it would sure be nice if we didn't have to fire up the thinking noodle every time we start a new part.  Whatever happened to good, quality CAD work?



dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote:    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: 



A lot of the parts come to us needing to be trimmed or cut to length. The recent posts regarding the fuel filler cap flange not screwing down far enough to make contact with the nose skin for instance. Another example would be the

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admin(at)arachnidrobotics
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: Checking XL parts (plans building) LONG (can delete)

    Of course, you're right about the glass being half full.  I'm trusting that everyone in the list is bright enough to understand that my opinion of the plans has nothing to do with my opinion of the airplanes.  Most of us have a set of Zenith plans in the garage or hanger, and most of us have looked at them and thought, "That's the best they could do?"  I don't pretend that I could begin to design an airplane such as the 601.  Chris has done an excellent job.  

     You, yourself make the point that this is an ever improving hobby/passion.  My sole point is that Zenith has designed wonderful aircraft, maintains a decent web site, provides more than adequate technical support, and does a fair job of getting the right parts out to the right people on time.  Couldn't they see their way to exchanging the trained ape for a draftsman? : )  It's a bit like getting into a fully  loaded jaguar and tying a string around your waist for a seat belt.  It just detracts from the experience (although it's still a great experience!).  

     I think I've commented on, or replied to this subject three or four times.  I'll quit beating the horse, I think it's dead.  I do appreciate your perspective though.  

 

     Thanks,

  

Gary Gower <ggower_99(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   Do not archive.

   

  Hello Tom,

  Personal experience, you can delete or read on as you want,  hope it helps you to get the "sweet and rewarding feeling of home building" and flying your own "Creation".

   

  Sure,  lots of improvement can be done to any set of plans and kits in the market.  But that also goes  hand by hand with  COST and availability...  If we are building a kit or plans built airplane, instead of buying a new C-182 IFR "glass"  panel  or a pressurized Lancair (built by professionals "kit" assemblers), is because final cost of our airplane IS important. 

   

  In my point of view,  given that I have already built 6 airplanes (now building # 7)  all of them in different materials (1 tube and cloth,  2 wood, 1 composite, 1 with aluminum ladders (yes, is true),  1 aluminum (701)  and now building a 601  XL .   I have gone also though several set of plans,  some can only be named  "instructive sketches" instead of plans, also most of this were built by me before the great help of Internet lists!!!  (now we can ask how could we build one without this GREAT help)...   

   

  Building from plans (earlier in time called  blueprints)  is (was) for sure more a FUN and LEARNING process that a "Lego  fit and push"  assembly process, like a computer desk we buy at Home Depot in a box...  

   

  When I built my first airplane, it was a wood construction type, made from raw material  (VP-1).   My experience with wood at that time, was only making a camp fire      Several times during the building process I wanted to burn it,,,  But with help of a local builder friend and lots of persistence, the plane was  completed, flown and is still flying (new owner, cant keep all my toys 

   

  The important part of building a plane is, once you decided the type of flying and the plane you are going to build, is Think Positive Always!   

   

  The average of plans built completed projects is about 10%  (kits can be a little higher  because they are LOTS more easy to built).   

   

  But if you don't stand in front of your project with a smile, every day you are going to  start work on it, and try to solve with patience and will all the (little, once they are solved) problems you encounter,  please don't start any project,  there are enough of  partial built  airplanes in garages and at e-bay to add one more... when you see your parts you have completed, imagine the complete airplane with you flying inside the cabin...

   

   There is a very "romantic" builder in the Club that once made this similarity at a hangar talk one evening:

  Think of your project like an affair with a pretty women that you cant get her image away from your mind....   A good affair, one that you will really enjoy.

  When you receive your kit, is like the first time you ask her  to dinner,  and the maiden flight is when you take her out for a weekend the first time :-0 ...   If  you enjoy the "building" process, is interesting and demanding, you will fly her lots of years with happiness,  or the other way if you don't want to go to all this process, you just need to  "call" (the local FBO) and "rent"  one (C-150)  any Saturday      

   

  Another point we have to take in account is, that any home built, is the brain child of a designer, most of them are designed around  their flying needs and most (not the Zenith case of course)  the plans are drawn from building sketches and memory once the plane is flying and people around start asking for plans (at least this is what used to be in the beguining of homebuilding)...  so they can be not "that" perfectly accurate.

   

  The kit build airplane is far  more elaborate,  there is always a team working with the Designer, to improve the actual designs, they use their experience, knowledge and  the comments from builders (our comments and complains help a lot) to make this improvements,  but we all have to be part of this happy group, remember we are the "Ten Per Centers Builder and Flying Group" so this makes US very exclusive!    

   

  Another good thing is that the Factory (anyone) is in constant improvement, and the Designer (most of the cases a Genius)  is always thinking and  designing a new kit.  See  Zenith, RV and some other serious kit manufacturers as example...  They never stop bringing  new designs,  so we always receive great support, not only while building, but also the time we keep our girlfriend (oops, airplane)    

   

  Welcome to the  group and enjoy your "half full" glass of water... (is not half empty, off course). 

   

  Saludos

  Gary "Compulsive Builder" Gower  

  Flying from Chapala, Mexico.

    



Tom and Bren Henderson <admin(at)arachnidrobotics.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		        You'd be surprised at how many discrepancies you find when you start laying the 601XL out in a 3D CAD package for  fabrication.  Skins run off at strange angles to spars, parts are miss-aligned by more than an inch or two, etc.  Obviously the airplane can be built safely and soundly using the existing plans, but it would sure be nice if we didn't have to fire up the thinking noodle every time we start a new part.  Whatever happened to good, quality CAD  work?



dredmoody(at)cox.net wrote:    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: 



A lot of the parts come to us needing to be trimmed or cut to length. The recent posts regarding the fuel filler cap flange not screwing down far enough to make contact with the nose skin for instance. Another example would be the

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: Checking XL parts (plans building) LONG (can delete)

Gary-

     You'd better fill out my  questionnaire!! The "Great help of Internet lists" is the whole point I'm trying  to get across.

     Contact me offline for a  questionnaire or I'm coming down and............. STAYING AT YOUR HOUSE FOR  VACATION!!

                                                                         Bill

                            do  not  archive                                         

 [quote]   ---

- The Matronics Zenith-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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