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Just a little lie

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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Just a little lie

I've been looking to buy some scales to do weight and balance. When I found something that looked like it would fit the bill, I e-mailed them requesting a quote on three. The reply was brief, "do you mind if I ask what you're using them for?" 

"I'm building three wheeled electric cars and I need them to check the front to rear weight bias".  "I have two vehicles awaiting battery installation and plan to purchase soon", was my answer.

 The following morning an e-mail arrived with price and a 1-800 number to order. I called.

"Good morning, I'd like to order three of your Whizbang 500 lb. scales."

"Is this Richard?"

"Yes" 

"Electric cars, huh?

"Yes"

"You know we have to ask, some people want to use them for aircraft or something weird like that."

"Really"

"Yes, now will you be using a credit card.............?" 



-- 

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.

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Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Just a little lie

Rick, I went to "Target" bought 4 scales, 0-300# each for $.7.00 each. 3 for plane 1 for spare. Instructor and I lifted Firestar KXP and lowered each wheel (front sides first) onto scale. Weighed plane. Was pleased. Decided to do weights and balance. I climbed in plane (at instructors suggestion, ...he, he!) and sat down.



Port scale shot out from under wheel, shout "WHOOPS", Starboard scale shot out from under Port wheel, sigh of "OH CRAP" emited from my lips, plane wiggled a bit, plane rolled forward, blam! Rear wheel rolled forward and pop, scale shot across room, spring system to left, upper stamping of scale body shot out right, base stayed stationary!



Kolb =0 Scales=3!



Dumb move on our part. Next visit to Target, we buy 5 scales: two for starboard wheel, two for port wheel, one for back wheel. Block plane from forward / backward movement. Climb into plane gently!



On the bottom of the scales they stated: "No critical weighing"! Go figure.



Laughing all the way back to Target!



Heavy Ohio Ralph!

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ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Just a little lie

Ralph, I see the problem already, you should know better than to put 

a Starboard scales under a Port wheel.  What do you expect was going 

to happen.  =-O  Just a suggestion check repeatability on your scales 

- may find there off more than you think.

jerb

At 03:02 PM 7/18/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Rick, I went to "Target" bought 4 scales, 0-300# each for $.7.00 

each. 3 for plane 1 for spare. Instructor and I lifted Firestar KXP 

and lowered each wheel (front sides first) onto scale. Weighed 

plane. Was pleased. Decided to do weights and balance. I climbed in 

plane (at instructors suggestion, ...he, he!) and sat down.



Port scale shot out from under wheel, shout "WHOOPS", Starboard 

scale shot out from under Port wheel, sigh of "OH CRAP" emited from 

my lips, plane wiggled a bit, plane rolled forward, blam! Rear wheel 

rolled forward and pop, scale shot across room, spring system to 

left, upper stamping of scale body shot out right, base stayed stationary!



Kolb =0 Scales=3!



Dumb move on our part. Next visit to Target, we buy 5 scales: two 

for starboard wheel, two for port wheel, one for back wheel. Block 

plane from forward / backward movement. Climb into plane gently!



On the bottom of the scales they stated: "No critical weighing"! Go figure.



Laughing all the way back to Target!



Heavy Ohio Ralph!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=48315#48315

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: Just a little lie

 some people want to use them for aircraft or  something weird like that.">>

  

 Hi Richard,

  

 is this sort of thing normal in the  US.

  

 What the hell does it have to do with the scale  makers what you are using them for?

  

 Bemused Brit

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

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Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Just a little lie

Actually, one of my many engineering jobs in my younger years was with a major scale (Automated Weighihg Systems). We knew the mechanical variations and frictions that clarified even in the best scales " 1% of scale capacity error!"



To the layman that means that if a scale has a weighing capacity (registry) of say 300# that the scale could be as much as 3# off ready: "Anywhere along its range"! DUH! If you weigh a 200# man he may weigh as much as 6# difference. Intently that ment +6# and or minus 6# or a plus and minus combination, to include "breakaway friction" of 6# on the plus or the minus!



The problem that lead to this problem was really the fact that the plane moved. We should have used chocks! Not only thta but any inteligent human knows that 3 - 300# scales in total can weigh evenly dispersed weight of 900#. We as "drivers" of aircraft also should reason that aircraft do not weigh 300# or less on each wheel! Brain fart on my part. Just because someone in charge tells you to do something and you have enough expierience to know better, APPLY that knowledge! I didnt'. But you are correct in say that "Starboard scale shot out from under Port wheel" was an obvious mistake. I agree, it should.



Now as for Pats statement "is this sort of thing normal in the US. "  I answer a big "YES" its America and we have lawyers! We can afford the stupid "eliminate common sense and please dont sue us if you misuse our products" statement to the point that we have more "DISCLAIMERS" than any other country in the world. Some other time I will share with you haow easy it is to "rewrite history" and "Make laws on the fly in America"!



Only in America is not always a good catch phrase. THe best part about this thread is That only in America can any man woman or child justify insanity in place of using the not so common "common sense"!



I think I'll sue Matt for his beard interfering in covering up his face underneath, from right here in Ohio, Ralph!

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Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: Just a little lie

Boy the "Butthead" that yped the previous statement (Ralph) sure could have used a lesson in spell checker!



No Name!

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jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Just a little lie

Yes, In the wonderful world of product liability it's better to start from a known point. I have been turned down by businesses when I uttered the "A" word. Recently I contacted the maker of Facet fuel pumps to get information about which pumps had check valves and which didn't. Figuring that since Spruce and Wick's sell them, I did a momentary brain fart and used the "A" word. Reply came back, "No airplane, BADDDD jujoo, go away, shoo." Or words to that effect. 

Now I buy parts for my off road vehicle all the time. It's not even a lie, I never tell them how far off the road it goes. I just needed a quick explanation for the need for three scales and my buddies electric trike came to mind. 

I urge everyone to read the book, "Rules for Radicals". If you can't blind 'em with brilliance..................



Rick



On 7/19/06, pat ladd  <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com (pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		         

  some people want to use them for aircraft or  something weird like that.">>

  



 Hi Richard,

  

 is this sort of thing normal in the  US.

  

 What the hell does it have to do with the scale  makers what you are using them for?

  

 Bemused Brit

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

 

  



	


-- 

Rick Girard

"Ya'll drop on in"

takes on a whole new meaning

when you live at the airport.

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:49 am Post subject: Just a little lie

In the wonderful world of product liability it's  better to start from a known point.>>

  

 Hi Richard .

 thankfully we are not at that stage yet. Just wait  a bit. While the courts and the lawmakers are all lawyers it is hardly  surprising that they create legislation that ensures that the legal business is  kept busy.

  

 Very sad really. Because it only needs one judge to  look at a case like that and say `Don`t be ridiculous, get out of my court and  you will be liable for costs for wasting the courts time" and the whole  nonsensical edifice would come tumbling down.

  

 Crazy isn`t it as we mainly fly with a Rotax with a  sticker on it saying `Not for use in aircraft`

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

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DAquaNut(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: Just a little lie

In a message dated 7/20/2006 6:49:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		      

   Crazy isn`t it as we mainly fly with a Rotax with    a sticker on it saying `Not for use in aircraft`

    

   Cheers

    

   Pat

	


 

          On the BR 8ES  Spark  plugs I buy, There is a picture of a plane with a circle and slash symbol on it  . That is the plug that Rotax says to use in my 447.  No one wants the  liability.

  

               Ed                      Do Not Archive

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