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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
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 Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: MOGAS Use |
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At 03:44 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | Guys I have been running over four years and 500+ hours on a mix of 25%
100LL, 75% 87 octane no-alcohol unleaded which I purchase from the local
farm bureau. Never had any trouble, other than the stains it makes on the
paint. No signs of detonation or elevated temperatures. Typically as a
flatlander I rarely go above 7500ft and have flown many times where the
OAT was 95 deg. F. At the moment my fuel costs are $31.98/hr, and if I go
100% 100LL its $40.00/hr, for a savings of $8.02/hour. (based on 10gph, 87
octane at $2.93/gal and 100LL at $4.00/gal.). I typically fly 10 hours a
month, for a net savings of $80.20 a month, $962.40/year. It's worth the
hassle!
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So what happens at up to 17,500' ?
Ron Lee
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rv9jim(at)juno.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: MOGAS Use |
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Ron,
What's 17,500?? Isn't that a nose bleed altitude?  )) I
intend to use MOGAS in a 50/50 blend in at least one tank until I am
satisfied that with my FI I'll have no problems. Then I may go to 25/75
MOGAS / 100LL in the other tank. If nothing else, it will keep the lead
accumulations down to a low level.
Jim Nelson
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ronlee(at)pcisys.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:04 pm Post subject: MOGAS Use |
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17,500 FEET MSL, Or pick 16,500 Feet, or 14,423 feet. That is
where I fly.
Ron Lee
| Quote: | Ron,
What's 17,500?? Isn't that a nose bleed altitude? )) I
intend to use MOGAS in a 50/50 blend in at least one tank until I am
satisfied that with my FI I'll have no problems. Then I may go to 25/75
MOGAS / 100LL in the other tank. If nothing else, it will keep the lead
accumulations down to a low level.
Jim Nelson
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jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: MOGAS Use |
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At 17:07 2006-07-04, you wrote:
| Quote: |
At 03:44 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote:
>Guys I have been running over four years and 500+ hours on a mix of
>25% 100LL, 75% 87 octane no-alcohol unleaded which I purchase from
>the local farm bureau. Never had any trouble, other than the
>stains it makes on the paint. No signs of detonation or elevated
>temperatures. Typically as a flatlander I rarely go above 7500ft
>and have flown many times where the OAT was 95 deg. F. At the
>moment my fuel costs are $31.98/hr, and if I go 100% 100LL its
>$40.00/hr, for a savings of $8.02/hour. (based on 10gph, 87 octane
>at $2.93/gal and 100LL at $4.00/gal.). I typically fly 10 hours a
>month, for a net savings of $80.20 a month, $962.40/year. It's
>worth the hassle!
So what happens at up to 17,500' ?
Ron Lee
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The highest I've been is 15,500 and that was on a horse.
I don't have an O2 bottle for the RV-4 so it's only been to 12k (for
a very short period of time).
We ran tens of thousands of gallons of auto gas through the C-182's
we used for jumping years ago and they regularly went to 12,500 and
sometimes to 14,500. Never a fuel problem and saved thousands of
$. Engines went to TBO and beyond as well.
If I were running at 17,500 I'd have to treat it like a special case
and use a special mix. Sorta like scuba divers going deep with a
special air mix. P-)
Mike
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lors01(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: MOGAS Use |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->
| Quote: | >--> RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net (ronlee(at)pcisys.net)>
| Quote: |
At 03:44 PM 7/4/2006, you wrote:
>Guys I have been running over four years and 500+ hours on a mix of
>25% 100LL, 75% 87 octane no-alcohol unleaded which I purchase from
>the local farm bureau. Never had any trouble, other than the
>stains it makes on the paint. No signs of detonation or elevated
>temperatures. Typically as a flatlander I rarely go above 7500ft
>and have flown many times where the OAT was 95 deg. F. At the
>moment my fuel costs are $31.98/hr, and if I go 100% 100LL its
>$40.00/hr, for a savings of $8.02/hour. (based on 10gph, 87 octane
>at $2.93/gal and 100LL at $4.00/gal.). I typically fly 10 hours a
>month, for a net savings of $80.20 a month, $962.40/year. It's
>worth the hassle!
So what happens at up to 17,500' ?
Ron Lee
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I normally fly as close to 18,000 ft (I am VFR only) as sky, wx, and regulations allow. About the only point I agree with that Mr gmcjetpilot made is that fuel system & installation do matter. I have nothing more exotic in my plane than the 2004 RX-8 car that donated the engine (actually more like the 1986 RX-7) and it works fine on 87 octane auto fuel (and on one occasion up to 19,500, don't ask). I've said it before but it bears repeating: The typical aircraft engine fuel system is about the most vapor lock prone thing you could design. That is the reason for most of the auto fuel horror stories (IMO).
As far as detonation on Lycomings is concerned, I have to defer to the experts that I've read. Won't rehash it here, but they tell me that 91 octane would work in most as-is (assuming a suitable fuel delivery system) and a system with knock sensor (yes, of course NOT an average auto knock sensor) or combustion pressure sensor would allow almost all the rest to work. The top of the line turbo and 10:1 CR models might have to be de-rated slightly. None of this should come as a surprise to those with any engine savvy.
Yes, Mazda specifies Premium gas for the 10:1 CR RX-8 engine. It probably needs that to meet the 238 HP spec they advertise but it will happily run on 87 octane (due to the knock sensor equipped ECU bumping down the ignition timing) and actually gets better fuel economy on the cheap stuff (again for reasons that every gear head knows). I don't use a knock sensor or the original EFI controller in the plane so I back the timing off by 1.875 degrees (only at 29" Hg MAP or more) which eliminates any problems with detonation. And it is not heavier than an equivalent Lycoming. At 278 lbs installed it weighs the same as an 0 - 320 and puts out the same power as an angle valve IO - 360. Loud? It does need a muffler but according to my sound pressure measuring instrument it is no louder than most Lyc powered RV's. Prop noise is less too because prop speed is lower. Most every Mazda rotary installation (in aircraft) is unique at this point so YMMV.
Ethanol: If it made sense and was cheaper, the government would not have to subsidize it. Even when subsidized, is gas cheaper when it is added? I don't know what could make the truth about it clearer.
Someday some chap working in a biology lab will bio-engineer a microbe which will eat most anything and piss 200 proof moonshine. Ethanol will then have arrived as a viable fuel. I'm hoping that he makes it piss oil instead, it still takes almost twice as much alcohol to fly any given mission. Don't want to have to put 60 gallon tanks in my RV-4 and leave my beautiful bride behind.
The point of my original rant on the subject was not to advocate auto or Mogas but to bitch about the bureaucracy that prevents easily implemented answers to the problems associated with 100LL (and about a million other things). It is a personal weakness that I try to resist but occasionally fail.
Tracy Crook
Rotary powered RV-4, 1600 hours of 87 octane Hmm...
do not archive this drivel
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