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Aerobatics and gyro's

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dan.beadle(at)inclinesoft
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: Aerobatics and gyro's

I believe that this is a good solution.  As long as they are not spinning, there is little stress on the bearings.    

         

  

From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garrett, Randy L Dr HQ INSCOM

 Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:01 PM

 To: rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Aerobatics and gyro's  

  

   

   

I am planning to begin aerobatics in my RV-6A (and will go through the proper paperwork process to add aerobatic manuevers to my flight limitations).

 

 I have a vacuum artificial horizon and directional gyro and an electrical turn coordinator.

 

 Unfortunately, there is no simple way to quickly remove any of these instruments.

 

 A potentially clever alternative ...

 

 I could easily adjust the vacuum so that the AH and DG do not run at all (that is, there's zero air flowing though the instruments) and pull the circuit breaker so that the turn coordinator is also off.

 

 But, I don't know if this would be better or worse for the gyros to not be spinning when they have G and centrifical forces applied to them. Also, would there be a problem for the vacuum pump to be running, but presumably not having any air flowing through it?

 

 Thanks!

 

 Randy Garrett

 RV-6A

 675 hours

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mitch(at)skybound.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: Aerobatics and gyro's

Incorrect.  Our EAA chapter just had a presentation from an avionics and 

major gyro rebuilding shop.  I asked specifically about aerobatics and 

gyros, they said "No problem whatsoever, UNLESS you do something silly 

like remove the vacuum".  They know the internals of gyros intimately, 

and said there are stops for the gimbals and it does them no harm at all 

to go to the stops for loops, rolls, etc.  I know there are many wives 

tales and hunches out there, but these guys have serious experience with 

gyros.



Mitch Faatz  RV-6A  Finish Kit (no, really)   Auburn, CA

Dan Beadle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I believe that this is a good solution.  As long as they are not 

 spinning, there is little stress on the bearings.  



  



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 *From:* owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Garrett, 

 Randy L Dr HQ INSCOM

 *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:01 PM

 *To:* rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Aerobatics and gyro's



  



  



 I am planning to begin aerobatics in my RV-6A (and will go through the 

 proper paperwork process to add aerobatic manuevers to my flight 

 limitations).



 I have a vacuum artificial horizon and directional gyro and an 

 electrical turn coordinator.



 Unfortunately, there is no simple way to quickly remove any of these 

 instruments.



 A potentially clever alternative ...



 I could easily adjust the vacuum so that the AH and DG do not run at 

 all (that is, there's zero air flowing though the instruments) and 

 pull the circuit breaker so that the turn coordinator is also off.



 But, I don't know if this would be better or worse for the gyros to 

 not be spinning when they have G and centrifical forces applied to 

 them. Also, would there be a problem for the vacuum pump to be 

 running, but presumably not having any air flowing through it?



 Thanks!



 Randy Garrett

 RV-6A

 675 hours

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

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dale1rv6(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: Aerobatics and gyro's

Then why did they make gyros that were cageable?

In my experience; 2 gyros went bad in 150 hours with monthly aerobatics. 

Then I installed 2 valves to allow vacuum flow switchable direct to filter, 

bypassing gyros. No problem so far 500 hours later with weekly aerobatics. I 

do use the gyros monthly for IFR practice too keep myself and gyros 

lubricated. I never liked seeing my instruments banging quite hard on each 

spill. BTW, hope they don't rotate boxes during shipping 

Dale

RV6A 650hrs



do not archive



---

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jsflyrv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: Aerobatics and gyro's

I don't believe that cage able is the same as just unhooking the vacuum 

ot electrical source. I have vacuum RC Allen vacuum gyro AH and DG and 

no problems

in the 800 hours I have had them installed. I do mild aerobatics regularly.



Jerry



Dale Walter wrote:



[quote] 



 Then why did they make gyros that were cageable?

 In my experience; 2 gyros went bad in 150 hours with monthly 

 aerobatics. Then I installed 2 valves to allow vacuum flow switchable 

 direct to filter, bypassing gyros. No problem so far 500 hours later 

 with weekly aerobatics. I do use the gyros monthly for IFR practice 

 too keep myself and gyros lubricated. I never liked seeing my 

 instruments banging quite hard on each spill. BTW, hope they don't 

 rotate boxes during shipping 

 Dale

 RV6A 650hrs



 do not archive



 ---

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Vanremog(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:12 am Post subject: Aerobatics and gyro's

In a message dated 7/12/2006 4:24:14 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  dale1rv6(at)comcast.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Then why    did they make gyros that were cageable?

	


 

 ================================

  

 I thought it was so that you could re-erect the gyro once you got straight  and level after completing your aerobatic maneuvers.   

 GV (RV-6A  N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 801hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)

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mitch(at)skybound.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:17 am Post subject: Aerobatics and gyro's

They are cageable to get back to proper indications as soon as possible 

after aerobatics.



 From Sigma-Tek: "The unique cageable attitude provides for quick 

erection and display alignment; a high priority for aerobatic aircraft 

owners and for aircraft operations that require short stops."  The 

caging mechanism simple gets the gyro to "close to level" as quickly as 

possible, instead of waiting for the righting mechanisms and erecting 

vanes to work.



To expand on this, here is more text from Sigma-Tek:  "Short stops 

(engine off less than 12 minutes) and some aerobatic maneuvers may cause 

your attitude gyro to tumble or precess from its vertical reference. 

When the rotor is spinning, the gyros normal erection system is slow and 

can take several minutes to correct a large erection error. This 

non-locking caging feature allows the pilot to quickly align the gyro 

display and rotor to gyro case reference. The attitude gyro should only 

be caged for quick alignment during straight and level VFR flight using 

well defined earth horizon for reference or prior to take off"



As far as you having better luck after removing vacuum, I'm guessing the 

new gyros are just better 



Mitch Faatz   RV-6A  Finish Kit  Auburn, CA



Dale Walter wrote:

[quote] 



 Then why did they make gyros that were cageable?

 In my experience; 2 gyros went bad in 150 hours with monthly 

 aerobatics. Then I installed 2 valves to allow vacuum flow switchable 

 direct to filter, bypassing gyros. No problem so far 500 hours later 

 with weekly aerobatics. I do use the gyros monthly for IFR practice 

 too keep myself and gyros lubricated. I never liked seeing my 

 instruments banging quite hard on each spill. BTW, hope they don't 

 rotate boxes during shipping 

 Dale

 RV6A 650hrs



 do not archive



 ---

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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