Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Question for finished builders

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Question for finished builders

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

brainsflight(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited until later (and benefits either way).

   

  The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get my airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over some time do the final detail work like paint, etc.  

   

   

  Thanks,

  Brian "Brain" Kissinger

  www.brainsflight.com

   

  701 factory kit

  fuselage on gear

  finishing tail section

  wings skeletons complete



  		Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Brian,

  

 I've built three airplanes over the years, two of  which were painted. I painted the first of the two after flying it a while. It  had a thin coan of Chromate while flying it before taking it out of service to  paint it. Had to "Strip" the Chromate off before painting. This was the most  work on that plane.

  

 The second plane I painted is the one I'm flying  now. I painted it before ever flying it. It was easier doing it that way. The  drawback is the problem of touch up when you have to disturb the nice new paint  job for corrections. I've had to do that too.

  

 With all that said, I think if I've just built a  kit plane to specs, I'd paint it before flying it. Just my  oppinion!

  

 Jim Hoak

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Brian,

It's a good thing to paint before first flight if you can manage it.  I 

flew 85 hours before deciding to paint and would estimate it will cost 

me more than 100 hours

extra in the preparation and clean up going forward to paint.  I've been 

at this since April and only have the small parts nearly done.  I'd 

probably still have done

it this way because that's the way I work, but if you can manage to get 

a coat of paint on it before  the fact, you'll save a lot of time.  

Also, paint in cool weather

if you can 70-80 degree days or air conditioned air will save you rework.



Larry McFarland - 601HDS

do not archive

Brian kissinger wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished 

 builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited 

 until later (and benefits either way).

  

 The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get 

 my airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over 

 some time do the final detail work like paint, etc. 

  

  

 Thanks,

 Brian "Brain" Kissinger

 www.brainsflight.com <http://www.brainsflight.com>

  

 701 factory kit

 fuselage on gear

 finishing tail section

 wings skeletons complete



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great 

 rates starting at 1¢/min. 

 <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com>

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:45 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

A close friend of mine who is building an RV7-A  (with my scant help) is planning to finish his plane, get it inspected and  certified, fly off the required hours then choose a commercial aircraft painter  and fly it to them. We've seen lots of planes that were not painted flown to  local fly-ins so I guess it's fairly routine to do that. If you decide to make  some significant modification during or after the test period it would nice not  to have to repaint, wouldn't it?

  

 Ed Moody II

 Rayne, LA

 601XL / 2nd wing

  	  Quote: 	
		     From:    Brian    kissinger (brainsflight(at)yahoo.com) 

   Subject: Question for    finished builders

   



   I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess,    of finished builders who painted their airplanes before    their 1st flight or waited until later (and benefits either    way).

    

   The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get my    airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over some time    do the final detail work like paint, etc.

jean-paul.roy4(at)tlb.sym
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: Question for finished builders

Brian, I've been thinking about it also and I came  out with an answer (my answer).

  

 If I don't paint it before I fly it first, I'll  never see an end to it. Plus this adds to the dismantling and re-assembly  time.

  

 When it'll take off, it will be painted. Mind you,  it is only MY opinion.

  

 Regards

  

 Jean-Paul

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

NYTerminat(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: Question for finished builders

I painted mine in pieces before final assembly. No regrets.

  

 Bob Spudis

 N701ZX  CH701 60 hrs

 do not archive

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 7/9/2006 10:19:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  brainsflight(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished    builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st    flight or waited until later (and benefits either way).

    

   The reason I ask is that I am considering a minimalist approach to get my    airplane in the air (safely), fly off the required time, then over some time    do the final detail work like paint, etc.  

    

    

   Thanks,

   Brian "Brain" Kissinger

   www.brainsflight.com

xl(at)prosody.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:22 pm Post subject: Question for finished builders

I wanted to fly so I did not do anything that wasn't necessary.

No paint (except the cowl), no upholstery, no wheel pants.

I do get the 'when are you going to paint it?' and 'someday you'll

install wheel pants, right?' comments. But, I'm flying and that's

what matters to me. Yeah, the plane shows my personality.

I'd rather fly than paint, and I like the bare metal - that's the

primary reason. Painted planes look good too - but different.



If you plan to paint it, do it before you fly.

You won't want to take the time after the first flight.

It goes without saying that this is my opinion - and what do I know???



Joe E

N633Z (at) BFI

CH601XL, 365 hours and still no paint

started May 2003, at AWO ready to fly Dec 2003

build time = 1077.5 hours

Jabiru 3300, Sensenich 64x49 wood prop

http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/

On Sun, 9 Jul 2006, Brian kissinger wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I had a quick question, or actually a survey I guess, of finished

 builders who painted their airplanes before their 1st flight or waited

 until later (and benefits either way).

   Thanks,  Brian "Brain" Kissinger

nfivesl(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:25 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Joe:



Tell me you did not paint a naked lady on your

airplane! (that was rhetorical).  Joe, you inspired me

a few years ago when you built your airplane in a tent

in your yard.  You continue to inspire me and I

appreciate your posts.  I think I may leave mine

unpainted for a while also.  Thanks!



Scott Laughlin

www.cooknwithgas.com

--- xl <xl(at)prosody.org> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I wanted to fly so I did not do anything that wasn't

 necessary.

 No paint (except the cowl), no upholstery, no wheel

 pants.


	


__________________________________________________

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:10 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Yup my HDS went 400 hours and 7 years and only ever got the fiberglass

painted.



Trouble is the Wife won't let me move the RV to the airport until it has

paint...Having never painted before this task was daunting but it's a

lot of fun learning how...I have everything painted except the wings so

far



Frank

Do not archive 



--

JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Brian, how you paint, when and with what is a personal touch and is really the only large imprint you will make on your plane. I was at the hanger for a flight Saturday morning and afterwards some adjustments. The fellow next door was working on his RV 9. His plane is complete structure and he's wiring now. He received a call that a pal of his was arriving in a bit in his RV9 so I was expectant. The plane arrived and at a distance looked ok. Now I am no airplane building master, but the fit and finish of this plane was very poor. Bucked up skin edges on the fuselage, un even rivets lines and heads, long thick ugly paint runs, rough edges that looked like they were cut with a hack saw. Even had a trim line side that looked like a child had put it on with a Magic Marker. To say the least it was very disappointing. My hanger neighbor's plane is a marvel of perfect finish and attention to detail as his many years in the aircraft industry would reflect. After the RV had departed he to indicated his disappointment in the plane as well. Long story, short answer. If the outside looks like crap the prudent pilot would reason that the insides were questionable as well. Best regards, Bill of Georgia

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

How sad....Thats an expensive airplane to do such a poor  job on.

  

 I think though Bill your right in that there is a world of  difference betwen an aircraft that has been built and one that has been thrown  together. I have seen many zodiacs that look like they were hammered into  shape...Not in my airplane thanyou very much.

  

 I had two most memeral experiences.

  

 1) I had just finished the Zodiac...My local A&P (with  IA of course) showed up at my hangar on his way home from work...Now this guy  was an exercise in intimidation...Harley biker dude, rough gruff, he was good  and he knew it. He also had a heart of gold but I didn't know that then. He  grunted hello...just invited himself into my hangar and slooowly walked around  my airplane...Leans back against his El Camino and starts rolling a joint..I  mean cigarette...And I think...Here it comes, the lecture about shade tree no  hopers slamming together airplanes lecture..he siad..."Frank I have to  say...Pregnant pause....You made a beautiful job job of building this  airplane!"

  

 Needless to say I couldn't stop the grin spreading across  my face!...His Name was Mike Farmer...4 years later i had the privilage of  recieving the phone call that he wanted to see me to sit with him at his death  bed... he was quite a guy and became one of my best friends.

  

 2) All my expert (and I mean expert) builder friends show  up on their bikes..and my freshly painted fuse (RV7a) is outside the shop. Turns  out they wer'nt sure where I lived but happed to be tooling down my road and aw  the plane in my yard...Of course they all turn round and in they come. One of  these guys is an expert painter/airbrusher...He stood there and gushed, "Frank  it looks great, its not perfect but no paint job ever is and I think you done a  very nice job!"

  

 For me at least these are points in my building career that  mean a lot...Kinda weired but I enjoy creating an airplane more than I enjoy  flying it really...But maybe that was because the HDS was SLOW!...I think the 7a  might be a little different....

  

 Oh well enough waxing andback to work

  

 Frank

  

 Do not archive



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com

Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:50  AM

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Zenith-List:  Question for finished builders

 

Brian, how you paint, when and with what is a  personal touch and is really the only large imprint you will make on your plane.  I was at the hanger for a flight Saturday morning and afterwards some  adjustments. The fellow next door was working on his RV 9. His plane is complete  structure and he's wiring now. He received a call that a pal of his was arriving  in a bit in his RV9 so I was expectant. The plane arrived and at a distance  looked ok. Now I am no airplane building master, but the fit and finish of this  plane was very poor. Bucked up skin edges on the fuselage, un even rivets lines  and heads, long thick ugly paint runs, rough edges that looked like they were  cut with a hack saw. Even had a trim line side that looked like a child had put  it on with a Magic Marker. To say the least it was very disappointing. My hanger  neighbor's plane is a marvel of perfect finish and attention to detail as his  many years in the aircraft industry would reflect. After the RV had departed he  to indicated his disappointment in the plane as well. Long story, short answer.  If the outside looks like crap the prudent pilot would reason that the insides  were questionable as well. Best regards, Bill of Georgia

JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Frank, as hard as you work and fret over your airplanes I am sure this RV you've built will be an eye pleasing performer. Best regards, Bill of Georgia

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:39 am Post subject: Question for finished builders

Bill,

   

  That makes a lot diference in building hours...   When we finished our 701, we could understand why the factory estimated building hours never match with the real hours invested in building.   Same "inside" the airplane that outside. 

  Over detailing an airplane could never make his first flight 

   

  Saludos

  Gary Gower.

  Do not archive.



JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  Brian, how you paint, when and with what is a personal touch and is really the only large imprint you will make on your plane. I was at the hanger for a flight Saturday morning and afterwards some adjustments. The fellow next  door was working on his RV 9. His plane is complete structure and he's wiring now. He received a call that a pal of his was arriving in a bit in his RV9 so I was expectant. The plane arrived and at a distance looked ok. Now I am no airplane building master, but the fit and finish of this plane was very poor. Bucked up skin edges on the fuselage, un even rivets lines and heads, long thick ugly paint runs, rough edges that looked like they were cut with a hack saw. Even had a trim line side that looked like a child had put it on with a Magic Marker. To say the least it was very disappointing. My hanger neighbor's plane is a marvel of perfect finish and attention to detail as his many years in the aircraft industry would reflect. After the RV had departed he to indicated his disappointment in the plane as well. Long story, short answer. If the outside looks like crap the prudent pilot would reason that the insides were questionable as well. Best regards, Bill of Georgia

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Question for finished builders

My 10 cents    I started building (701) in 1991. Prior to assy of anything I would scotchbrite, alumprep, (alodine sometimes), and prime. My wings have been finished and stored for over 6 years and are painted on the outside (rag wiped) with zinc chromate (rattle can for all internal parts). I know that if I wipe this off to use a different primer I will have a nice shiny clean alum surface underneath. Over the years I have switched to Primers more compatible with modern finish paints. However, today I have the fuse nearly finished. wings, rudder, stab, flaperons and slats all finished and I don't have a single component that is not primed. I consider the inside finished except for the cabin area which I will finish paint. I'd die if I had to paint everything in one shot. I'm so used to painting as I go along now that it's just part of the building process. For me I believe that this is the way to go. By the way, most everything is different shades of grey right now and without a finish paint job it looks quite nice compared to a bare metal job  ........Geoff

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum