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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
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 Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
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Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec starter that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event of kickback). I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous similar problems of kickback when using at least one electronic ignition system. Many messages, including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting the engine on the mag then turning on the electronic ignition once started, or at least after several swings of the prop. Seems like a huge hassle to me and certainly not standard. Especially when you consider one of the advantages of having an electronic ignition is easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all of this stems from the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked at the specs on Sky-Tec’s website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285 amps whereas the high torque (wound vs. LS’s permanent magnet) starter is 125-185 amps.
So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was back at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy (still at Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to man the office during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week sooner) ship me the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then left me message that he agreed with my findings and was sending me the other starter (no charge!). Judy indicated that this was becoming fairly common with this setup.
Lessons learned – customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them. Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if you have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic engine monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
Marcus
40286
If I can ever get my GRT wired properly I’ll be ready for the inspection. Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a GRT EIS feeding the EFIS, I’d sure appreciate the info!
Do not archive
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
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You had kickback because your ignition isn't setup right. Kickback
occurs when the engine fires with the normal 20-25 degrees before TDC
during cranking. Any mag or electronic system that doesn't switch to
firing AT TDC during cranking should be turned OFF during cranking.
Engines that use a retard breaker on the left mag wire the switch to
turn off the right mag during cranking. Ditto engines with only one
impulse coupling. If your electronic ignition doesn't have an automatic
retard during cranking, it should be grounded during cranking. The
starter isn't at fault...it is the fault of the ignition design/setup.
If the starter didn't have a shear pin, the kickback would likely damage
the starter gear and destroy the starter.
KM
A&P/IA
Marcus Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec
starter that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event
of kickback). I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous
similar problems of kickback when using at least one electronic ignition
system. Many messages, including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting
the engine on the mag then turning on the electronic ignition once
started, or at least after several swings of the prop. Seems like a
huge hassle to me and certainly not standard. Especially when you
consider one of the advantages of having an electronic ignition is
easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all of this stems from
the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked at the specs on
Sky-Tec’s website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285 amps
whereas the high torque (wound vs. LS’s permanent magnet) starter is
125-185 amps.
So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my
findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was
back at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy
(still at Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to
man the office during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week
sooner) ship me the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then
left me message that he agreed with my findings and was sending me the
other starter (no charge!). Judy indicated that this was becoming
fairly common with this setup.
Lessons learned – customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of
incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them.
Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if
you have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic
engine monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
Marcus
40286
If I can ever get my GRT wired properly I’ll be ready for the
inspection. Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a
GRT EIS feeding the EFIS, I’d sure appreciate the info!
Do not archive
|
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
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Hey again Marcus,
I think I have the HT version of starter from Aerosport, with
no problems. Bart suggested it, initially, when I poked around
looking for starter choices.
As for the keyswitch wiring, I'm having great luck with the
wiring that I have, and it allows me to start on the Lightspeed,
and is also starting with the Mag. I don't think this is
a problem, as the lightspeed should be self-retarding and
advancing based on MP. I'm no expert, but it's worked well
and I'm now only 3 hours away from 100. Not all people are
comfortable with the keyswitch wiring, due to the mysterious
grounding...very hard to explain without opening that can
of worms again. Anyway, it works fine for me and shuts
down the mags properly, so until I can find a better keyswitch
not designed to ground the right mag during start, I'm sticking
with it.
I wish you lots of luck and keep me posted. As for your fuel
tank wiring, I shot you some stuff off a bit ago and hopefully
it'll help. If you're getting stuck, you can call me as I'll
be around now since I'm home from OSH.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec
starter that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event
of kickback). I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous
similar problems of kickback when using at least one electronic ignition
system. Many messages, including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting
the engine on the mag then turning on the electronic ignition once
started, or at least after several swings of the prop. Seems like a
huge hassle to me and certainly not standard. Especially when you
consider one of the advantages of having an electronic ignition is
easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all of this stems from
the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked at the specs on
Sky-Tec’s website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285 amps
whereas the high torque (wound vs. LS’s permanent magnet) starter is
125-185 amps.
So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my
findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was
back at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy
(still at Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to
man the office during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week
sooner) ship me the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then
left me message that he agreed with my findings and was sending me the
other starter (no charge!). Judy indicated that this was becoming
fairly common with this setup.
Lessons learned – customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of
incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them.
Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if
you have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic
engine monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
Marcus
40286
If I can ever get my GRT wired properly I’ll be ready for the
inspection. Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a
GRT EIS feeding the EFIS, I’d sure appreciate the info!
Do not archive
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
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Tim,
Thanks for all of the info, as always you have been a great help. I
tried wiring my switch like yours and it worked great and it still will shut
the engine down when turned off.
I rewired the RPM sensor to feed from the mag and that worked well also. On
another list I got the recommendation to install a switch to alternate the
RPM signal source so you can validate the mag drop. The only snag is the
signals are different pulse rates (mag vs electronic ignition) so one of the
signals will be twice the other so a little mental math will be required.
Did you inspector balk at your setup at all since you can't check the RPM on
just the mag?
The EIS programming info is awesome!
Thanks again,
Marcus
Do not archive
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:53 pm Post subject: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
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No, the DAR didn't have a problem with it. He sat in the plane for
a WOT run-up and I just explained that the tach signal can only come
from one of the two sources due to the difference in pulse count.
He didn't have any issue with it, especially since I had the explanation
handy.
Hope the EIS info turns out helpful. If you need me to, I'll go back
and recheck all of the values to current. Those I think were done
after it was working well, but before I calibrated my fuel flow
transducer. I'm still confused though why you got a zero reading
from the lightspeed. Ultimately, I guess it doesn't matter which
source you use, but I kind of think of the lightspeed as more
"accurate" just because it's digital. Who knows....
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
| Quote: | Did you inspector balk at your setup at all since you can't check the RPM on
just the mag?
The EIS programming info is awesome!
Thanks again,
Marcus
Do not archive
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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