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Ceashman(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:01 am Post subject: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>
| Quote: | Hey, I like this thread. I want to complicate it a bit by asking a
question. Michel, do you mean a side slip? I think you mean a forward
slip..............
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Randy. I am also liking the topic, (thanks Michel for initiation).
Now my question is, well, I'll play this out as this scenario;
No wind, perfectly calm. I am on final but high and also in a perfect line with the runway.
I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to the left (all at the same time). I keep my ground track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now somewhat pointing it's right side to the runway. (and best of all, I am enjoying the elevator ride down)
Is this not a side slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my side.
Second scenario;
I am on final. Wind hitting me on my right wing. I need to lower my right wing to stay on track, so I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to the left, because I do not want to make a right turn. I keep my ground track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now pointing it's nose to the runway. Because my slightly low right wing should be compensating for the wind energy.
Is this not a forward slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my propellor.
So' Is slipping into the wind (second scenario) a side slip or a forward slip?
Thanks for the advise, cause I am always a little confused with the book description of this.
Cheers. Eric Atlanta Classic IV
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:27 pm Post subject: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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On Jul 29, 2006, at 12:57 PM, Ceashman(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | So' Is slipping into the wind (second scenario) a side slip or a
forward slip?
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hummmmm, not sure, Eric. On second thoughts, I think you're right, what
I do is a side slip and not a forward slip.
Anyway, guys, I think I am pretty well aware of what you are saying
regarding the danger of uncoordinated manoeuvre near the ground, etc.
But ...
I could try to stall in a cross control situation like a side slip, at
a safe altitude. But I dare not, I am too afraid to end in a spin, even
a limited one. So, I was hoping one of you could be so kind as to be a
test pilot for me! 
Here is what I think happens. Please correct me if I am wrong.
In a skid, usually trying to turn too fast without enough banking, if
stalling, your lower wing will abruptly fall down and this is the best
way to end up in a spin. The lower wing stalls first because blanketed
by the fuselage and having less lift.
In a slip, the high wing stalls first because also blanketed by the
fuselage. But since it is already high, it takes more time to come down
to say 45 degrees, when the plane flicks inverted. Usually, an awaken
pilot will manage to center the controls before that happens, as
opposed to the more sudden skid.
Am I right? Am I wrong?
Cheers,
Michel
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AMuller589(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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As long as you are in the maneuvering range of airspeed you can put any control hard over with out structural damage. As long as you are above stall and do these smoothly, nothing will happen except uncoordinated flight. Go back to your basic FLIGHT TRAINING MANUAL AC 61-21 to see what these are called. In a slip (no flap) you should not be above 30 degrees of bank and nothing will happen until you get close to stall.. AC 61-21 calls for demonstrating accelerated maneuver stalls at 45 degrees of bank but these should be coordinated Ball centered) Just remember during any of these excessive cross control maneuvers you should do them without sudden erratic inputs to avoid snap rolls. I recommend you read your AC 61-21 to get more detailed answers. Get a CFI/aerobatic qualified friend to show these in an acrobatic type aircraft to gain confidence and understand what an aircraft can really do safely. Flying will be much more pleasant once you experience/master these maneuvers.
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rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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Eric,
I will try to answer as I was taught and as makes sense to me. (Although I gotta admit I see a certain logic to your scenarios.  )
I was taught that the name applies to the direction of the plane through the air. In your second scenario, you are wanting to move the plane sideways through the air. Hence side slip.
Your first scenario still moves the plane ahead relative to the air. Hence forward slip.
??
I was a glider pilot for 30 years before I finally bit the bullet and ordered a Kitfox kit. – and decided I better get a power rating. ! As Colin explained, this may be why I am so comfortable with slips. I hadn’t thought of it before, but it may also be why my instructor had such a hard time getting me to go around after a bounce. My inclination was to get my act together and get it on the ground! This is also why I like to shut my engine off and play glider on a good day. (That is a good BUMPY day to some pilots.) My light 5/7 doesn’t have a very good glide ratio – between 10 and 11 to 1 as near as I can determine – but at a little lower speed, it does have a reasonable sink rate of about 425 FPM which makes it possible to soar a bit.
Randy
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From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ceashman(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 4:58 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>
>Hey, I like this thread. I want to complicate it a bit by asking a
>question. Michel, do you mean a side slip? I think you mean a forward
>slip..............
Randy. I am also liking the topic, (thanks Michel for initiation).
Now my question is, well, I'll play this out as this scenario;
No wind, perfectly calm. I am on final but high and also in a perfect line with the runway.
I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to the left (all at the same time). I keep my ground track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now somewhat pointing it's right side to the runway. (and best of all, I am enjoying the elevator ride down)
Is this not a side slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my side.
Second scenario;
I am on final. Wind hitting me on my right wing. I need to lower my right wing to stay on track, so I will move stick to the right and balance rudder to the left, because I do not want to make a right turn. I keep my ground track straight in to the runway. My Kitfox is now pointing it's nose to the runway. Because my slightly low right wing should be compensating for the wind energy.
Is this not a forward slip? 'cause i am facing the runway with my propellor.
So' Is slipping into the wind (second scenario) a side slip or a forward slip?
Thanks for the advise, cause I am always a little confused with the book description of this.
Cheers. Eric Atlanta Classic IV
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mike
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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This is my understanding of a forward slip versus a side slip. you are flying on a straight ahead course heading, you put in right rudder and then put in left aileron to keep the same course heading, this is a forward slip. A side slip is when you are on a straight heading in a forward slip and you want to side step to line up to the runway, so you keep rudder input and put in either less aileron or more aileron to move the airplane more in line with the new direction of flight.
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mike
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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One more note for usage of a slip, to loose altitude to prevent shock cooling of the engine. I learned this in a mountain seminar. You clear a ridge at lets say 9000ft and you want to go down to 4000ft don't just pull the nose over, go into a slip and save the engine from shock cool. Sure you might get a sore foot from holding the rudder(cessna) but you don't have to worry about the engine.
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Michel
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: Stall in a side slip. Side-V-Forward Slip |
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On Jul 29, 2006, at 11:18 PM, AMuller589(at)aol.com wrote:
| Quote: | Go back to your basic FLIGHT TRAINING MANUAL AC 61-21 to see what
these are called.
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.. hum, my dear friend, I am a French-speaking Belgian who has spent
the past 30 years in Norway. It was hard enough for me to pass my
utralight aircraft license in something else than my mother tongue. I
can only take it as a compliment that you believe I had an English
language aviation training.
On Jul 30, 2006, at 5:05 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
I can only but appreciate the time you, and others, spent to explain
that in details, Guy. Clear as mud? Let's say that it is part of what
one learns when learning about aviation. But it is surely interesting
to read it again, maybe formulated in a different way, or by using
other examples. It was certainly good reading.
Cheers,
Michel
do not archive
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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 |
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